DirecTV HD DVR For the new MPEG4 local HD service

At this point, there's been no formal talk of a replacement unit. It would make sense that any new HD-DVR unit will support MPEG-4, but no info has been released yet.

And it's a good bet that it won't be running Tivo software (unfortunately).

It is strange that we haven't heard anything about the new mpeg4 hardware. I wonder if they're having technical problems or if they're trying to figure out how to handle the existing mpeg3 hardware and customers.

DirecTV planned two new satellites using the MPEG-4 technology for launch this year, and announced they would add 500 local HDTV channels. Spaceway 1 was launched earlier this year and is up there. Spaceway 2 was supposed to have gone up June 25, but was delayed due to a malfunction in a second communications satellite ( Telkom- 2) also in the payload, requiring that Telkom-2 be sent back to the US for repair. Spaceway-2 passed all tests, but was put into storage. No new launch date has been announced.

This indefinite delay in getting Spaceway 2 up affects the date that DirecTV can start up the new MPEG-4 signals, since I am guessing they planned a start up using BOTH birds. Any info on MPEG-4 receivers for the HD local channels is also still non-existant as far as I have seen.

One other point about any new DirecTV HD DVR. The new DVR supplier for DirecTV is NDS ( which is also owned by News Corp) and they have announced a new DirecTV DVR is coming, but it will NOT be HD. NDS makes DVRs for the UK SkyB systems, but they are not HD. Is NDS developing a new HD DVR? Who knows? IF they are, it will be a version 1.0 for them.

My guess the HD Tivo has some life left before a replacement appears. The HR10-250 finally arrived about two years after it was announced. And we don't even have an announcement on any new MPEG-4 units yet, much less a new replacement HD DVR. 2007 is the date DirecTV plans to launch two more satellites and add capacity for 150 NATIONAL HDTV channels. That looks to me like 2007 is the year they must have the new HD DVR out.

Don,

I hate to hear that. I was hoping to get a new DirecTV HD DVR by Christmas this year. Oh well I may have to go ahead and buy the TiVo HD 10-250. I did not want to do this since it will be outdated pretty soon. I hope that your info/speculation time frame is wrong but it sounds like you have done your homework and you are on top of this.

Thanks for the information.

Don,

Oh well I may have to go ahead and buy the TiVo HD 10-250. I did not want to do this since it will be outdated pretty soon.
.

This is a difficult time to buy ANY DirecTV HD receivers, as it is clear all current HD models are obsolete now. The only reason is if you can accept the cost as a possible "throwaway" in anything from a month from now or up to 2 years until sometime in 2007. The cities to get HD locals sometime soon have been announced. You might check if your location is one of them. If not a HR 10-250 will probably work until 2007 just fine. Also in most of these cities you can get all the HD channels OTA with the HR10-250 now. Providing these HD locals to those markets is a competition issue with the cable companies in those cities so the customer does not need an OTA antenna. (and if history is a guide OTA reception beats DirecTV quality everytime!)


See this link:

http://ces.engadget.com/entry/1234000430026331/

"With 13 total satellites already up or planned for use by 2007, DirecTV will be launching high definition local channels in the second half of 2005 in twelve markets. The first cities will be New York, Chicago, Boston, Dallas, Atlanta, Houston, Los Angeles, Philadelphia, San Francisco, Washington DC, Detroit, and Tampa. HD locals will be transmitted with MPEG4 AVC HD transmission (the first live demo will be shown on the CES floor), but users will need a new satellite receiver to receive those MPEG4 AVC feeds and perhaps a new satellite dish (they completely dodged the new dish question)."

________

It was something like two years after DirecTV started HDTV channels before they got the first HD DVR ( HR 10-250) on the market. During that time I bought two HD D* receivers so I could get their HD channels- a Toshiba that overheated and failed just after the warranty expired and a Sony I kept as a backup in case my HR 10-250 fails.

I have seen nothing from DirecTV that says they will provide new HD DVR capability just for the 500 new HD local channels. In fact I have had three conversations with DirecTV customer service about their current Tivo HD listings in the HR10-250 for the local digital channels in my market. The Tivo listings and the "Guide" are provided for my local digital channels included in the fee I pay DirecTV , but the local channel listings are wrong!. DirecTV tells me they are "not responsible" for correct listings for channels I get OTA and refuse to correct the local OTA data in the HR10-250 Guide and Tivo listings. I even contacted Tivo who makes up the listings, but no results.

This is some of the background on why I don't expect a new HD DVR anytime soon, but I agree with you - I hope I am wrong. However the 1650 HD channels to roll out in 2007 will demand new receivers for all HD customers.

Don,

Thanks again for the great info. The reason I am anxiously awaiting the HD local roll out and anticipating the DirecTV HD DVR is because I am experiencing reception problems again this summer with my local St. Louis channels. I posted several times last summer about this and even bought an UHF(9032) TV antenna and the reception was worse so I put back up my old VHF/UHF antenna on a higher mount and was able to achieve consistent reception with the old one but it was turning cooler and the leaves were falling off my neighbors trees. I thought I had solve the problem but with return of the summer temperatures and my neighbors leaves the STL digital channels are very inconsistent during the day and night but most of the time it is OK at night except for the FOX channel which has always given me problems.
So anyway I was very much looking forward to DirecTV HD locals because of my reception problems. Unfortunately STL is not in the first wave but we should be in the second wave like we were before with the locals. In addition to these HD locals from DirecTV I was hoping to add the new DirecTV HD DVR with MPEG 4 capability. It looks like I will have to wait until at least 2006 before STL HD locals get added to the DirecTV lineup. You are correct I would prefer to stay with OTA HD reception which I agree is a lot better but it is frustrating being 70-80 miles from STL the reception is too inconsistent in the summer(hot) months. So I do not think I have much choice but to go with DirecTV HD locals.

MJM76,

Do you subscribe to the DirecTV HD Package? Do you get any of the HD network affiliate feeds from DirecTV right now?

Here's why I ask...
No where has DirecTV stated which of our HD local channels they will broadcast. I suspect only the 4 major networks. I'm not expecting UPN, WB, or PBS... I'm in the Philly market. Our ABC and NBC both multicast, so will I get all of the sub-channels too? I doubt it.

If you're currently getting the 4 major affiliate HD feeds from DirecTV, you're getting the HD content, it's just coming out of NY or LA. It will be some time before they remove those feeds.

Also, how about Cable TV? They probably have all of your HD local's and a PVR service.

Raff,

The only DirecTV network HD affiliate I get is Fox. I would have to get a waiver from the all the other STL stations to get any more DirecTV HD network feeds. I understand those are near impossible to get but my brother is a lawyer so that might help if I wanted to go that route.

We have Charter Cable where I live but they have not introduced the HD package yet.

You may be right about DirecTV only doing the major HD networks first. That is how they did when the rolled out the other locals.

DirecTV's HD network feeds are alright for most of the programs but my cproblem is I want to watch the local sports teams(Rams,Blues,Cardinals) in HD. Network feeds would not have them most of the time unless it was for a nationally televised game.

Hmm... You've got a couple of strikes against you in this case.

Well, at least you'll get the Rams on FOX-HD.

Raff,

No actually I won't get the Rams on DirecTV's Fox HD(out of NY) unless they play in a Nationally televised game and this year those are on ABC.

I can only hope my OTA reception is good their game days. I can hope for cooler weather...........that seems to help with my long distance reception problem.

Yup, sorry about that!

MJM76

Just buy the HR 10-250. If they replace it they will swap your HR10-250 for whatever they come out with...trust me, they just want your subscription...When I had a little tiny problem with my HR10-250, they rushed me a new one so fast it made my head spin....Then I sent back the old one. If they can't make the new technology backward compatible, they will simply swap units. The HR10-250 is a great unit and you can upgrade it to hold 103 hrs of HD content and 693 hrs of non HD. Not to mention the new web-enabled upgrades.

Thanks for the info. I may just pull the trigger some day and buy that HR 10-250 like you suggested.

>From the AVSForum:

"DIRECTV to launch HD locals and MPEG-4 box Nov 1st


This was revealed in their 2nd quarter conference call. It affects the first 12 HD markets.

They say they will transition their current 500K-600K HD Viewers to MPEG-4 boxes mostly in 2006 and into 2007 (not in 2005). Those opting for locals later this year will get MPEG-4 equipment."

Atlanta is one of the 12 markets. I am not jumping for joy yet, since I have a HD-TiVo that will not be replaced until the new HMC is out... also, unless they increase their HD channels and stop compressing them severely, I am tempted to move to Charter... but Charter! 's HD-DVR doesn't seem to be readily available. I am between a dish an d a hard place

More details about DirecTV's announcement here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthre ... ge=1&pp=60

--
Jose R. Perez

Nov 1 was never stated as a hard date. What was said was 'early
November'. Some folks at AVS have taken this to mean Nov. 1, but not
me. Also it was said that they are trying hard to be ready with
MPEG-4 by early Nov. so that it is available before the holiday
shopping season, but that the schedule could slip again. Spaceway 2
was scheduled to go up in May/June, but now it looks like late Sep. to
early Oct. Not sure what impact that has had on the MPEG4 rollout,
but it can't help.

f300v10

Don,

Thanks again for the great info.
.... Unfortunately STL is not in the first wave but we should be in the second wave like we were before with the locals. In addition to these HD locals from DirecTV I was hoping to add the new DirecTV HD DVR with MPEG 4 capability. It looks like I will have to wait until at least 2006 before STL HD locals get added to the DirecTV lineup. .

STL is not in the first group of cities to get DirecTV HD locals. That means to me you won't get STL HD locals on DirecTV until 2007 with the launch of the new satellites now being built. I have not seen anything about 2006 launches of new capacity. When the 2007 switchover comes, it probably will be for ALL the HD customers nationwide as the new birds are also to have up to 150 new National HD channels that are also MPEG-4, in addition to full HD local coverage in every TV market in the country where a HD local station is available. Some sort of equipment swap arrangement is almost a certainty as a new dish will probably be needed too. If they don't make it easy, they risk losing a lot of HD customers to cable deals or to Dish.

Also, about your reception problem, several users including me, have found the current HR 10-250 to be very sensitive on OTA signals, and might (?) help your current reception. It is much better than the Sony HD 200 I was using before. When I first installed my HR 10-250 I was surprised to find FOX digital channel 8 was broadcasting. I got it at 10-20 on the meter on a UHF antenna pointed the wrong way, the Sony never saw it. It was so sensitive I ran into a problem with strong nearby FM radio interference that was solved with Ken's outstanding help by adding a Radio Shack FM trap in the line. I can now pick up a very weak Fox digital station on channel 8 from 66 miles away still at low power, with just the smallest Channel Master combo VHF-UHF antenna and a CM 7777 aimed at the weak channel 8 as well as four nearby UHF stations about 30 degrees off the azimuth of the antenna . I get digital signal strengths about 80 on the 0-100 scale of the HR 10-250. I don't watch Fox digital much as they still do not have FOX HDTV, and I get the same station on the DirecTV locals in SD about the same quality. However I keep checking since someday they HAVE to go HDTV or lose their audience. My guess now is they plan tie into the 2007 DirecTV HD buildup since Fox network and DirecTV are both run by Murdoch, and they told me last year it would be a "2-3 years to go HD". My hope is based on why would Murdoch invest billions in HD locals unless ALL his local FOX afilliates go HD too ? Very few people will go to the expense of the antenna I put up, so DirecTV HD locals is the solution to competing with cable.

Don,

Thanks again for the great information. I have read similar reports about the 10-250 being more sensitive to OTA reception. I currently have a Sony HD 300. It has seemed to be better that the RCA DTC that I had with OTA reception.

On your 10-250 is the signal meter easy to access? On my Sony HD 300 I only have to press one button to get a signal meter on the screen. Before with my RCA DTC I had to go into a menu to select the signal meter option and it was a pain.

Is it true that with the 10-250 you can not get the local analog stations? I thought I had read where only digital where obtainable.

Thanks

Yea, the tuner in the 10-250 is a newer generation than the DTC100 and HD300. 4th generation 8VSB tuners kill the 1st and 2nd generations for sensitivity and multipath correction.

The 10-250 has an ATSC only OTA tuner. It will not decode NTSC(analog).

http://www.directv.com/imagine/PDF/HD_DVR.pdf

Don,
On your 10-250 is the signal meter easy to access? On my Sony HD 300 I only have to press one button to get a signal meter on the screen. Before with my RCA DTC I had to go into a menu to select the signal meter option and it was a pain.

On the HR 10-250 you DO have to go to a menu function to measure signal strength. There are a couple of reasons.

First you set a primary market to search for local OTA statons with the option for a second distant market TV stations. This tells the unit which stations should be available, so if it finds one it can provide Tivo listings for setting recordings of local OTA channels up to two weeks in advance and searching for programs by multiple methods( channel, time, program title, keyword in program description, actor or director name etc. For example maybe you heard a promo about a sports event coming, but don't remember the channel or time. Enter the teams name and search. It will list every broadcast on all channels, including the HD channels for that team for the next two weeks. Click on the ones you want and the Tivo is set to record. For example our Seattle Mariners show up on several channels and there are about 40 games this year occasionally on channels 94-95 in HD. I search on "Mariners" and discover the occasional games on the HD channels well in advance.

Second the 10-250 has to disconnect the two OTA tuners from the recording function in order to measure their signals. It is ALWAYS recording the last 30 minutes of the channel you last watched(BTW this is neat if you tune in a bit late and miss the start- there is the last 30 minutes of that channel always there). In addition you may have set up to two simultaneous recording jobs and the 10-250 asks permission to discontinue these recordings before going to the meters. Sometimes I have forgotten I had a movie set to record and wait until the movie is recorded before going to measurements.

Once in the meters there are two- one for each OTA digital tuner. And yes, there are NO NTSC tuners, just two DirecTV HD tuners and two digital HD OTA tuners. Since the local NTSC channels are mostly now available on the DirecTV locals package they want you to subscribe to that- always after your bucks!

You then manually use the remote to click an arrow to move up the channels from 2 to 69. These are the actual broadcast channels NOT the virtual ones, i.e. My Fox analog station is on channel 11 and it shows up in the listings as KFFX-DT channel 11-1, but is actually broadcasting their digital signal on channel 8 where you both measure strength and verify both OTA tuners are working and picking it up by setting it to channel 8. THE readings are always almost identical on both tuners. There is an Auto search function on setup that scans from channels 2 to 69 and dings when it finds a OTA station and then lists them (and their sub channels ) in your "channels received list). I found doing this scan twice was useful- sometimes it found the main station the first scan and then added sub channels on the second scan.

There is also a tone that goes up in pitch with the signal strength. I was able to set this loud enough to hear outside through an open window when I was on the ladder rotating the antenna for maximums.

Yes, it not as quick as the Sony, but much more complete data. If I remember correctly you use a rotor, so this would be an inconvenience if you had to use it every time you tune a channel. In my case I found one antenna setting that pulled in the distant station, and there was enough off axis signals for the near by stations that alignment there was less critical. I found that once I had any signal over 68-70 it was very stable with only rare dropouts. This is the nature of digital- Once you get enough signal strength it is perfect and more does not make it better.

Similar measurements are available for sat signals. It measures each of the three sat locations A,B and C, and you can check each transponder. You have probably seen the posts here where sometimes a problem develops with only one Sat location- these meters help align the dish to optimize all three and tell you if one is not working. On rare occasions a strong thunderstorm will block one Sat only for a short while and these meters are useful( the sat signal is absorbed by water). They also got me a free Dish replacement under the service contact when the C sat LNB went flaky- the data clearly showed DirecTV rep there was a problem just on the C sat transponders.

On the whole the HR-10-250 has been a remarkable receiver.

My only complaint is the TIVO service ( which costs an extra $4.99/mo) lists my local OTA digital stations, but does not have correct listings. ( It does a great job on the DirecTV channels including HD channels)

For example, my local PBS station now has PBS-HD 24-7 on channel 31-1 and regular PBS on 31-2 , but multiple contacts with D* have failed to get them to put these HD programs into the Tivo listings for that channel local PBS channel here- they show the same listings on both sub channels, which are the same data they provide for that station on the DirecTV local package. They give preference to their own DirecTV PBS local in my Tivo listings, which are not the HD programs. I found a work around. I set my secondary market as Spokane WA which is about 120 miles and I can't get the stations, but the PBS station their has PBS HD listed correctly in Spokane locals. If I see a program I want I can set the Tivo manually to record that time slot, but with my local 31-1 channel selected and it works! I get the local PBS HD programs recorded.

Raff and Don,

Thanks again guys! Very interesting information! I love this forum!