It's Official: Toshiba Announces Discontinuation of HD DVD Businesses

Will the studio's go ahead and release their anounced titles on HD-DVD till the end of May?

Many Paramount and Warner Bro movies that have been anounced that I am waiting for!.. {and have on pre-order}

American Gangster 02/19/08 <-got shipping notice on this one..
The Invasion 02/19/08

The Brave One 02/26/08
Beowulf Director's Cut 02/26/08
The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford 02/26/08

Michael Clayton 03/11/08
In the Valley of Elah 03/11/08

The Jack Ryan Collection 03/25/08

Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street 04/01/08

I Am Legend 04/08/08 <- If Warner does not release on HD-DVD they better offer a HD for Blu exchange for the 'Omega Man'!!

Twister 05/27/08


--David

For someone like me who championed Betamax over VHS tapes so long ago, this is cheering. For once, the technically superior format won, due in no small part to information provided by Internet sites like this one

The articlle, by Toshiba, is here http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2008_02/pr1903.htm

The technically superior format? That must be why Samsung is being sued in a class action for selling knowingly defective BR players? You can read the complaint here:
http://www.courthousenews.com/2008/02/08/BluRayNewark.pdf

The title says it: we all paid, just some more than others. HD DVD was cheaper to make and to buy, better from the get-go, and the player design was further developed. I suppose Sony's leg in the content provider area was the edge, but still the whole process just delayed adoption and we will all pay more now for everything. And the pace of development will slow: "Hey man, what's the rush; we won!" Screws will tighten on supporters, and $$, not time or quality will drive all decisions. It's , "Let's make back all that lost cash time".It's not much of a victory for consumers; just a jump in a new direction, I don't see as rosy as hharris4. Well, On to the next event! BAdams

Yes, the in-fighting between various HD formats is now officially over and that is definitely a good thing. But let's never lose sight of the bigger picture (and the real struggle) - the "war" between SD and HD media. While those of us who are early adopters with a passion for movies concentrated our efforts on procuring HD content wherever it was offered (I myself own 5 HD players and over 300 titles in both of the formats) most of the buying public has sat on the sidelines, still needing to be convinced of any real advantage of HD over SD (at least to the point where they would open their wallets.) HD sales are still a very small percentage of the total DVD, etc. media market at this point and having two formats out there can't have helped with consumers sitting on the fence. The important thing now is for all concerned to concentrate their efforts on educating the public regarding the higher quality of sight, sound and capacity offered by HD media.

As a power user of both HD formats speaking from a position of authority as an actual user of the technology I have to disagree with the notion that the "superior" format won since the jury is still out on on that one. My personal experience has shown me that both Blu-ray and HD-DVD formats produce nearly identical picture and sound - given the right media and proper equipment. It's also a fallacy to claim that Blu-ray would have an advantage over HD-DVD in terms of storage, because the 50G to 30G Blu-ray "advantage" was about to become a non-issue with the introduction of 51G HD-DVD discs. And before any Blu-ray zealots point out that the 51G HD-DVD discs were just at the introductory stage let me point out that very few, if any Blu-ray titles were taking advantage of the extra 20G of space on that format. Besides, if one compares the actual delivery of features to the current market, Blu-ray had an abysmal record in that regard because of an indecisive set of standards that brought chaos to the marketplace. My only misgiving regarding the end of the format skirmish is that I fear that Blu-ray will drag their feet even further without any competition. A Profile 1.0, then 1.1 then 2.0 scenario without any backward compatibilty is a absolute nightmare for the average consumer and an insult to early adopters. Which is also why my Blu-ray player of choice is still my original PS3.

But that's now all in the past and I'm crossing my fingers that things will work out. But it's not going to be as easy as some people think. Blu-ray discs are still much more expensive to produce because factories have to be retrofitted practically from the ground up. And this can't take place overnight without making it economically infeasible. Already there have been indications that some of the studios who want to offer more Blu-ray content are talking about moving their schedules back because there are limited procduct facilities. And the "economies of scale" arguments seem to forget that we were dealing with a market where Blu-ray media prices were artificially deflated (in order to compete) so there will be quite a time lag before prices drop. I'm actually noticing a slight increase in HD media pricing (the "street" price - which is a true indicator and not the MSRP) and I hope that this changes soon.

So yes, I applaud the end of this skirmish but not because any so-called "superior" format won. With a united front there is actually a chance that the HD camp might be able to wage a successful battle against SD media for domination and proliferation in the HT marketplace. Otherwise it's going to be another example of the LD, SACD and DVD-A scenarios playing out again and to this old-timer (and I suspect many others here) that's not a good thing.

Will the studio's go ahead and release their anounced titles on HD-DVD till the end of May?
I have not seen anything official, but I can't imagine Toshiba enforcing their existing studio contracts. I expect announcements from the HD DVD exclusive studios soon. Anything already in production runs will likely ship what has been produced, but can't speak to back-orders.

- Shane

Sony's PS3 integration of Blu-ray with a game machine was a not insignificant factor here...

I have to disagree with this point. Regardless of the "actual" effect of this marriage, it weighed heavily on the minds of consumers and studios alike every time figures came out regarding "player penetration". Whether true or not, it gave Sony the appearance of dominating the market.

- Shane

I think hharris4 was agreeing with you - he said NOT INsignificant, meaning it was very significant as you pointed out.

You're right ... damn double-negatives! ;-)

- Shane

Let's hope the war begins. If it doesn't we have lost. Only time will tell...

The technically superior format? That must be why Samsung is being sued in a class action for selling knowingly defective BR players? You can read the complaint here:
http://www.courthousenews.com/2008/02/08/BluRayNewark.pdf

The fact that some company manufactured defective players doesn't mean that the format is not superior... however, i've heard a lot of complains about defective HD-DVD players, of course those players where manufactured by the only company (or almost only) that manufactured HD-DVD, Toshiba, and the persons who own those defective players are not getting support from the company... i'm not sure if they are going to sue, i guess they should...

Otherwise it's going to be another example of the LD, SACD and DVD-A scenarios playing out again and to this old-timer (and I suspect many others here) that's not a good thing.


LD lasted for 20 years. Blu-Ray should be so lucky.

Understood (and I agree). I'm intimately familiar with the entire history of LD and still own about 2000 LDs (yes, I occasionally play a couple that haven't made it over to DVD). However, my reference to LD et. al. was as a niche market product. My biggest concern is that HD Media (no matter which format) will have the same fate if the general public is willing to accept the lowest common DVD denominator (SD-DVD) as "good enough." The only way that HD discs will become mainstream, unless there is some very good education of the public, is if the players in the future are only HD models (which also play SD-DVDs and at the same price point as today's SD players) and SD-DVDs are no longer produced. This, of course, will take time, and those players would allow anyone who chooses not to upgrade to HDM to stay the course. Given a choice, the average consumer (not the average person reading this list) will opt for SD over HD the majority of the time in my opinion.

WELL THE SONY MONOPOLY WON AGAIN! I'VE MANAGED TO STAY AWAY FROM SONY AND WILL CONTINUE TO DO SO--NOW JUST FOR SPITE!
I BOUGHT A NEW TOSHIBA HD-AX35-DVD (THEIR BEST) JUST BEFORE CHRISTMAS AND I BOUGHT THE NEW SAMSUNG 1400X superXX (OR WHATEVER) Blu-RAY. THEY BOTH HAVE EXCELLENT PICTURES VIA HDMI HOOK-UP THROUGH MY NEW TOP OF THE LINE YAMAHA LOSSLESS A-V RECEIVER.
THE PROBLEM IS [THE MORE EXPENSIVE] Blu-RAY PROGRAMMING IS STILL FULL OF BULL EXCREMENT! THEY DON'T EVEN TELL YOU: HOW TO START THE DISC PLAYING IN THE SAMSUNG MANUAL. --AND THEY HAVE 3 DIFFERENT KINDS OF MENU BUTTONS ON THE DAMN REMOTE.
I SENT A DISC BACK TO NET-FLIX (Blu-RAY), BECAUSE I COULDN'T GET IT TO START PLAYING; ALL I GOT WAS THIS ".............." BOUNCING BALL ACROSS THE SCREEN.
WHY IS IT THAT MEDIOCRITY (and I'm being GENEROUS) ALWAYS SEEMS TO PREVAIL, THESE DAYS!
EVER SINCE DISCO FEVER, WE SEEM TO SETTLE FOR THE MINIMUM, INSTEAD OF DEMANDING THE MAXIMUM.
TOSHIBA'S SOFTWARE IN THEIR MACHINES IS 6-12 MONTHS AHEAD OF Blu-RAY'S.
MAYBE SOME OF THE TOSHIBA TECHNICIANS CAN ACROSS "THE GINZA" AND TEACH THEIR SONY BROTHERS HOW TO WRITE SOFTWARE THAT WORKS, TODAY!
THEN THE SONY BROTHERS CAN TEACH THE SAMSUNG KOREAN COUSINS, AND I CAN FINALLY GET A Blu-RAY PLAYER, THAT WORKS -AS WELL AS MY PRESENT DAY TOSHIBA HD-DVD! LOOKS LIKE I'VE GOT A $329 PAPER-WEIGHT. DAMN... DAMN...DAMN...!
fpnovak

It's my opinion that the killing of HD-DVD will almost ensure that HDM will indeed become a niche market. HD-DVD was an economical way for many buyers to take the plunge. Now.,with only a higher priced and underperforming (my opinion, based on exposre and comparison of both BR & HD-DVD running 8 - 10 hrs per day) format remaining, any potential adoption will certainly slow down. Even if BR players drop $100 in price, it's still not worth the price for most potential consumers. Also, as far as mosrt HDTV owners I've spoken with, the arbitrary elimination of HD-DVD has seemed to engender distrust of the industry. Apparently, some resent the fact that the choice was taken from them. Add to this the fact that there are far more HD content options via cable, satellite, etc., the need for $300 - $400 HD players is minimal. But time will tell how the cards will fall.

HD-DVD was an economical way for many buyers to take the plunge. Now.,with only a higher priced and underperforming format remaining, any potential adoption will certainly slow down.

a) how long do you honestly think Toshiba could afford to keep selling $200 players with 5 free movies? If Blu-Ray went away and HD DVD was left alone I guarantee you the cheap Toshiba machines would be history. And if both formats survived then at some point Toshiba would accept that they weren't going to drive Blu-Ray out of business and the same thing would happen.

The idea that Toshiba player prices were indicative of long term pricing is ridiculous.

b) most HDTV owners don't know the difference between HD DVD and Blu-Ray except for what they've heard from friends who are on one side or the other. Most owners are reluctant to buy either one not knowing what the future might hold. Don't confuse early adopters and videophiles with the average consumer.

Standard DVD players were $1000 when they first came out and prices came down quickly as the manufacturers ramped up production. The same will happen with Blu-Ray.

A) Even the normal prices of HDD were below BR. At Xmas, the average pricefor comparative (and, being up to specs, superior) HDD players were $150 less than BR. And the occasional sale would bring it even lower.

B) The price of standard DVD players certainly were not $1000! I know...I had one of the first ones ($400.00). And you can't compare then and now. There are many more options for HD (both current and pending) so that BR is not the only game in town. In fact, in terms of just content alone, it's waaaay down at the bottom of the list.

Let's do some simple math.

First, throw out Xbox and PS3 because those are subsidized by video game sales. Throw out anything else from Toshiba and Sony. That leaves 3rd party hardware manufacturers like Samsung. I can't think of any reason why Samsung would be subsidizing one format or the other since they make both.

The stand-alone Samsung Blu-Ray player is $400. The Samsung combination Blu-Ray/HD DVD player is $800. If HD DVD is so much cheaper then why isn't the combination player $600?

The price of standard DVD players certainly were not $1000! I know...I had one of the first ones ($400.00).

With all due respect (as I share your views as a user of both HD formats that HD-DVD certainly was delivering more on the promise of HD players when they pulled the plug) I can vouch for the fact that the first DVD player was, in fact, around $1000 with very little budging away from MSRP in early 1997. That would be the SONY DVP7000S which I purchased for ~$999 and still works after 11 years! It was the earliest version of that machine (no macrovision enabled and no reagion coding) and I'm using it in a spare bedroom when the grandkids come over. Granted, it was pre-DTS so it lacks some of the features of almost all current DVD players but it definitely was $1000 at the outset. And yes, the price of DVD players quickly dropped as competition arrived. My next DVD player, with more features was around $400 about a year later. I'm sure the price drop occurred before that point.

Speaking of prices, etc., now that HD-DVD has pulled the plug that doesn't stop people from taking advantage of the great pricing of remaining HD-DVD players as long as they still are available. Even if you never place an HD-DVD disc in its tray, these Toshiba units are tremendous upscaling DVD players and far superior to the usual $39-$69 fare at the big box stores. Coincidentally, a friend of mine was in the market for a new DVD player (his old unit completely crapped out and he had just gotten a great new HD display). Although he wasn't ready to start with Blu-ray and balked at the $300+ pricing of current players I pointed out that there were several Toshiba models that could be had at places like Amazon for extremely attractive prices. In fact, if you factor in the 7 free HD-DVDs (two in the box and 5 more by mail - the offer is still good until the end of March) some of the models are actually free to the consumer. I pointed out that this wasn't a HD vs SD issue and most if not all of his SD-DVD collection would look better when played on the Toshiba. He got a unit and was amazed at how good his favorite SD-DVDs looked compared to before. Interestingly, a "know-it-all" neighbor who happened to walk in as we were setting things up saw the Toshiba box and exclaimed, "Don't open the box. HD-DVD is dead. Send it back and buy a Blu-ray player!!" He didn't have a clue as to why I was recommending a Toshiba player as a low cost (actually "no cost") option. The HD-DVD players are great SD players at remarkable pricing for now.

Luckily, my friend realized that I know a lot more about HT than his neighbor but it just goes to show what the HD industry will be up against when trying to convince the "general public" why SD isn't "good enough" because to them it is.

Wow! Guess Sony was always a rip-off! My first plaers in 1997 were the Pioneer LD/DVD combo (with LD performance compromised, I jettisoned that one in favor of the glorious HLD-X9) and (ironically) a Toshiba model for $400.00.

Throughout the current HD war, I didn't pick up either format. However, while I was working in electronics retail, it was plain to see that the HD-DVD format was easily superior to the more expensive BR stand-alones in nearly every way. If I hadn't missed the $99,00 sale on the A2 machines, I would have had one then.

However, the demise of HD-DVD did bring about one positive result. Just today, I learned that Circuit City has the A30 players for $122.00 (tax included!) For some of the same reasons that you describe, I picked one up today (Upconversion is reportedly better than the A3). Of course, I couldn't resist grabbing BLADE RUNNER, 2001, and the TROY Director's Cut as well.

I look forward to getting some of the remaining HD-DVD releases to come. When that ends, I'll still be getting HD movies day-and-date via OnDemand. For the rest, I have the second-best upconverting player on the market (the A35 being a bit better.) For the price I paid (less whatever I get from selling my Sony upconverting player), I'm quite satisfied. More so than waiting till Fall/Winter for a finally equal-to-HD-DVD up-to-spec BR player for $400.00!!!

Maybe I'll get a BR player a few years from now, depending on what the HD terrain looks like then. But somehow, I don't think I'll need it with all the HD options I already have.

As I said above, the mediocre (higher priced) format -Blu-RAY- has prevailed. I think it is very unfortunate, what motivation do they have to improve on their inferior software in their HD-players-NOW?
If we are going to take the HD-DVD choice away, then let's take all SD-DVDs away, too. Maybe by Feb. 19, 2009.
We should've dragged the "Definition-Challenged" kicking and screaming into the 21st century, several years ago.
Since I have little faith in Blu-RAY, isn't there a third format hiding in the weeds? One that can hold 90-100 Megabytes?on their discs?
What is it's definition limit? Does it handle the 4000 lines per screen of SUPER-HDTV?
That way- I CAN WATCH MY 60 IN. (58in.-actually) Toshiba Regza from 18 inches away from the screen?

In for a penny/ In for a Pound!

-fpnovak

Henry,
Have you ever watched a good Toshiba HD-DVD Player? :
If you are still pining away for Beta-max, I'm guessing you haven't.
If you have compared HD-DVD & Blu-RAY, side to side, and still think Blu-RAY is better; then all I can say is ... "Can you pass me what you're smoking?"
-fpn

fpn, this last post has me lost - could you quote what you are responding to please?