Another Opinion - The High Cost of Saving Money

[terrypaullin]

Look, I'll admit it. I like to find a bargain as much as the next guy. When I walk into "DVDs ‘R US", I always slide by the "previously viewed" bin first. When I travel, Budget Inn is high on my list. But experience has taught me that there are times when spending MORE is the smart thing to do in the name of economy. Recently, in the quest to find material on this site to be contrary about (that's my mission here - had you guessed?), I found a significant number of posts focused on where to find the absolute rock bottom price for this or that piece of A/V gear. It's not unusual to find a subsequent post a week or two later looking for help on how to "fix" that same item.

Here's the thing...

[url=http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/columns/2008/02/another_opinion_-_the_high_cost_of_saving_money.php]Read the Column[/url]

[allargon]

So, Terry. You are hyping alleged quality issues with Toshiba HD-A3's for $150 while ignoring problems with expensive $500+ Samsung Blu-Ray players? All the high def optical players have typical earlier adopter issues

There's nothing wrong with cheaper mass market stuff. Those cheap $50 Chinese-made and branded DVD players have fewer issues with homemade and self-authored DVD's than many of the $300+ mainstream DVD players. Not every one needs the fancy noise reduction and scaling capabilities of Sony and Sharp. They are happy saving $1k or more with a Vizio. Yes, the $5k Lexicon DVD player has a buffer where you don't get a 1 second pause during a layer change with movies. Most people that paid $30 for their DVD players are willing to live with this.

Now, for the expensive components and expensive displays? I had a friend that wanted to buy a Pioneer! plasma and asked the sales guy how good the TV speakers were on the display. Even I took issue with that. Spending money here, but saving money there is still an issue for many people.

Asking people to go whole hog on the display and the components isn't just elitist, it's unrealistic.

[n2ubp]

Dollars paid does not always equate to quality and performance received.
High end mfgr name does not always guarantee high end quality.
Discussion groups and reviews on the Internet prove this out time and time again.
The best retailer / installer understands this, uses this to their advantage to create a balanced installation
that meets and exceeds the customer expectations within their budget.
The exception are the videophiles where money is not an issue and the name plate on the case is more
important than the performance.

Steve
73 de N2UBP

[terrypaullin]

So, Terry. You are hyping alleged quality issues with Toshiba HD-A3's for $150 while ignoring problems with expensive $500+ Samsung Blu-Ray players? All the high def optical players have typical earlier adopter issues.... Asking people to go whole hog on the display and the components isn't just elitist, it's unrealistic.

First of all, I never advocated going "whole hog". Going whole hog would be "hyping" a Denon BD player at $2,000 or their top-of-the-line NTSC player at $3,800.

There are no "alledged" problems with these players. ALL current and past generation players on both sides (BD and HD-DVD) have had serious s/w problems. They are LEGEND with any installer you talk to. Even NetFlix is alerting their customers to the need for s/w updates.

I promise you, there is PLENTY wrong with "cheap, mass-marketed" players. Forget the poor build quality and cheesy user interface, I'm talking about (lack of) fundemental video processing.

Finally, suggesting that people only spend money once and save up for some minimum level of enjoyable video performance is anything but elitist, it's experienced-based prudence.

[GuyOwen]

You make a good point. What I find is that people, generally, do not do any research before buying. I do way too much. It will take me 8 months to decide on spending $3,000 on an HDTV. Maybe 3 months on a $500 Blu-Ray or HD-DVD player. That's why I ended up at AVSForum. I simply need to know why I'm paying those monies for this-or-that product.

The hard part, however, is figuring out where that line is drawn between value vs quality. In my experience, most of my associates, family, and friends simply go out and buy what's on sale. Or what seemed like a good idea at the time. I wish I could be satisfied with such decisions for myself.

But I have talked to very few who actually say they've gone out and bought junk from Circuit Barn. The bigger danger? Those guys in the van that stop you in the parking lot to tell you they just delivered a bunch of equipment to a local warehouse, and -- guess what? -- they have three sets of really fine speakers and receivers for only $50 because their supplier shipped too many by mistake. I had a friend that nearly fell for that one until I pointed out that the namebrand on the boxes was NOT well-known.

[terrypaullin]

Guy, thanks for your input. You are definitely erring on the right side - that is, doing too much homework. The only thing wrong with that is you are missing out on the benefits of whatever it is you are doing homework on. On the other hand, the item is likely coming down in price while you are doing your research!

It may well be possible to reduce your research time by narrowing the "voices" you listen to. The "chat rooms" can be dangerous places to glean info (yes, I realize this IS one) and I intend to do a column on that topic as soon as I increase my life insurance. Just be sure the "facts" you are gathering are from reliable, trusted sources.

B-T-W, most people who buy "junk", don't realize they have bought junk, because they never have experienced the real deal in comparison. Ignorance is bliss.

The guys in the van are on their way to jail. Let's just hope they don't meet any of your friends along the way.

[GuyOwen]

I really do wish you would do that article on the Forums. I think I learn a lot in most of them. It's frustrating because you really can't tell who knows their stuff. I hope you point out one glaring fact about those Forums: People always recommend what "they" bought as an example of what is "best". It is rare for an individual to admit that their decision may not have been the best choice. I have been posting several Topics, lately, on the dangers of running out of things to replace, the frustration of no one ever being satisfied with their purchases, and what I call the Carcass-Pickers who do nothing but work hard to find every little problem they can with a new HDTV set or AVR. The thing I hate about the Forums is that people are so offensive to each other, at times.

The only ones who do not post there are the ones who are oblivious to these issues and are -- surprise! -- enjoying their equipment! My advice? Make a decision, but don't go back there because you'll only get increasingly disappointed by that decision.

Yes, I do too much research. I'm a Purchasing Agent, so part of it is a reflection of my job, I guess. And then I do look for a good price on the items I decide to buy -- not necessarily the lowest. Although I buy on the Web every day, many websites selling video and audio or camera equipment scare me -- especially those out of New York. Most local dealers turn me completely off.

I've had one enjoyable experience at local Retailers this past year -- when I visited Myer-Emco. I think it comes down to the luck-of-the-draw as to which Rep you meet in the stores. Whether he talks down to you, or acts like a jerk. So I have a small problem with the idea of just paying more because of some perceived benefit in that act. I do agree with researching and deciding on a good-quality unit and then finding it at a reasonable price. I trust Amazon for that a lot of the time.

One way to fix that might be to set standard pricing that is locked in for everyone.
Oops! There goes Free Enterprise!

Let me ask you this...
When every manufacture prints a LIST price -- and then none of the stores sell it at LIST -- how is a person supposed to determine what a FAIR price is? I'm talking good-quality units. Does anyone really pay the stated List Price for anything? And why is the List so far removed from the selling price? This is so prolific in the video / audio industry that it is almost laughable.

[alice]

There's nothing wrong with cheaper mass market stuff. Those cheap $50 Chinese-made and branded DVD players have fewer issues with homemade and self-authored DVD's than many of the $300+ mainstream DVD players. Not every one needs the fancy noise reduction and scaling capabilities of Sony and Sharp. They are happy saving $1k or more with a Vizio. Yes, the $5k Lexicon DVD player has a buffer where you don't get a 1 second pause during a layer change with movies. Most people that paid $30 for their DVD players are willing to live with this.

If you believe it , then will leave you to that thought

[free2speak]

I agree with you to a point.

I have seen the "great deal" which never quite adds up. A computer with too little harddrive, memory, or a slow CPU. A TV which doesn't have enough inputs is one of my favorite examples. A friend of mine (didn't talk to me first) purchased a 42" widescreen television at closeout for $900, but the TV is not HDTV. Buying a sleek looking flatscreen TV is not a value as we are moving to HDTV in a year so that is $900 spent on old technology that will never give my friend access to HDTV and means he needs to spend more money to move to HDTV.

DVD's in the bargain bin are no bargain for HDTV owners. Most bargain DVD's are the "Normal" format. Anyone with a widescreen HDTV needs a "Widescreen" usually "Special Edition" and more expensive version of the disk. You don't find many widescreen editions sitting in the bargain bin.

As for HD players I can only speak for my experience. I purchased the Toshiba HD-A2 for $99. It is by far the cheapest component in my home theater. It is also excellent. I keep it updated because it is always connected to the internet. I have experienced no playback problems with it. The only problem I have seen with HD DVD was caused by "exclusive" deals made to try to move everyone to BD. These deals have nothing to do with the quality or lack of for the less expensive HD DVD players.

Contrast my HD DVD experience with many expensive BD players. A recent lawsuit was filed against Samsung because many new BD disks don't play on the early players. The early and expensive BD players will never be able to move into the future because they lack the hardware and software to handle new BD features. What a bargain.

[HDTVfun]

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