Blu-ray Wins: A Bittersweet Celebration

[hharris4earthlink]

I have to disagree. The player prices will come down for two distinct reasons. One, many manufacturers will be competing now for market share. Two, it is in the nature of technology that once the initial investment in technology is amortized, the race begins to find cheaper and better ways to manufacture the product. There is nothing about this technology to suggest Blu-ray will be an exception.

Also I disagree with the notion that somehow the players in this race resorted to unfair competition. This is the normal way the market works, and, in my view, this time it did work, unlike the Beta versus VHS wars in which the inferior product won.

But I enthusiastically agree with the idea that the public needs to educate themselves to the possibilities of the format. Surround Sound is an important ingredient of the immersive HD experience and the industry has done a great job of making the new standards backwards compatible so that long-time users like myself don't have to throw away their expensive Dolby receivers. And, by the way, don't forget the sub-woofers including the rear one. When that hand grenade explodes behind you, you want to feel the punch in your back.

So, it's all good. Time to sit back and enjoy!

Henry

[pmalter0]

Sorry Dale, you do not feel our pain; you are not even close. I think I can speak for most of us in saying that we would have no pain if HD DVD simply lost to free market competition. Everyone benefits from free market competition, but if you think what happened to HD DVD is "free market competition" then you have really been drinking Bush's kool aid. What happened was a conspiracy to restrain trade (in the words of the Sherman Antitrust Act), and at an earlier time the Justice Department would have stepped in. When hundreds of millions of dollars get passed under the table in order to prevent consumers from being able to choose the best deal for them, that's Tony Soprano capitalism. That "street fight" that's so upset you is what true competition is all about. And please stop insulting us by lecturing us on the virtues of acceptance and equanimity, we all should be angry. It doesn't matter which technology you personally like better, BR supporters got screwed over almost as much as HD DVD. You will be forever denied the lower disc prices that format competition would have produced (HD disc media itself may fail because BR cannot now price to reach the mass market). But most important, you should be angry at being treated like sheep -- you were denied your right to choose -- you were denied the benefits of free market competition that are supposedly guaranteed to you by our laws. You, of all people, who have fought and worked so hard and so long to bring the benefits of HDTV to the market should be the most incensed.

Phil

[Dale]

by Andre "DVDBack23" Yoskowitz -- published in AfterDawn.com


Toshiba CEO Atsutoshi Nishida has finally talked out about his company's decision to drop HD DVD and went as far as to say that the format did not "stand a chance" following Warner's decision to drop the format for Blu-ray.

Citing the Warner decision, Nishida said that the format would have only had 20% of the software market share and that Warner's decision sealed the format war's fate.

"One has to take calculated risks in business, but it's also important to switch gears immediately if you think your decision was wrong," explained Nishida. "We were doing this to win, and if we weren't going to win then we had to pull out, especially since consumers were already asking for a single standard."

In the wake of the end of the HD format war, Toshiba said it would focus more on upconverting standard-def DVD players and PCs as well as HD digital downloads.

"We've been developing technologies in [the video downloads] area already, but now that we don't have the HD DVD business, I want to put even more energy into that,"added Nishida.

[terrypaullin]

uhh....BD player prices won't come down - tag, you're it.

Let's see. Players announced/shipped since the "war" ended, 1/4/2008

Denon 3800..............$1,999
Denon 2500..............$999
Pioneer BDP94..........$999
Panasonic 30K..........$499
Sony S2000ES..........$1,200
Goldmund.................$16,900

Average Selling Price................................$3,766 and change.
......O.K., throw out the Goldmund.

Adjusted Average Selling price................$1,139.20

I'm pretty sure that's north of what we saw during WWIII.

Henry, you can't even build a decent NTSC player for $300. The chipset in anybody's HD player is more expensive. With any luck and a little help from volume, I hope that we can see a GOOD BD player in the $500 range by Christmas.

[bernieredshift]

A pox on both their houses. They both deserved to lose, actually. How in the world did anyone think the studios were going to support both technologies. Somebody had to lose, nobody knew which side would win, so they should have collaborated. I feel sorry for the employees who will be fired thanks to their idiot executives (who will undoubtedly walk off with huge golden parachutes for being so...what?). Apple TV seem pretty attractive at this point.

[hharris4earthlink]

Terry, let me give you an actual list for people who work for a living:

Samsung BD-P1400 1080p Blu-Ray Disc Player $357.14
Sony BDP-S300 1080p Blu-ray Disc Player $389.99
Sharp Aquos BDHP20U 1080p Blu-Ray Disc Player $349.98
Panasonic DMP-BD30K 1080p Blu-Ray Disc Player $749.99

to name a few. And this is just the beginning. I have some experience developing technology and I know many, if not all, of these companies are working like mad to make more competitive units. Now that the standard is known, the rest is fairly straightforward. Your list is strictly for snobs who have more money than brains.

Henry

[terrypaullin]

Henry (can I call you Hank?)

Henry, consider the case of Denon who pretty much own the DVD player/receiver space. They have done so based on a reputation for quality, performance and the sheer operational scale that allows them to offer something for everyone.
On the NTSC side, which has had plenty of time to sort out, they offer 10 players priced from $169 to $3,500. Why would their first foray into HDland be two players over $1,000? Do you really think their strategy to capture market share is to go after "snobs" first? Ditto for the entire Pioneer Elite line, one of the most successful in CE history. Is it possible that these guys have built their success based on delivering superior images or do you think they count on a sustained ability to dupe snobs?

[pmalter0]

Dale,

What is it with your blind acceptance of industry self-serving statements? Do you actually believe what you quoted is a retort to my comment? Do you want me to explain to you just how meaningless the statement about consumer preference is?

Phil

To wit: Six months ago, Ken Graffeo, HD DVD Promotions Group co-chair and Universal Studios strategic marketing executive VP, had this to say about consumer preferences:

The lower cost of HD DVD duplication has made it easer for independent film producers to offer their titles in the high-definition format, Gaffeo said.

[allchemie]

Almost all new formats of consumer electronics start off with high prices; from computers, HDTV's, VHS, DVD players, Navigational devices, etc. Denon's first foray into the standard DVD market many years ago didn't have any cheap players. It is zero suprise they don't have cheap players available yet in the new Blu Ray format, which was late to the party in getting their complete formats in order, not to mention the delay caused by the major studios mostly wanting a more hack-proof copyright system. The studios never learn that all these protocols are ultimately hackable. Sure, Toshiba's was hacked first, but even Blu Ray was later hacked.

The only reason Toshiba was charging cheap prices for their HD players was to get market share against the Blu Ray group (sounds like Blue Man Group---:-) sorry. Sony mostly used their PS3 to garner market share for both Blu Ray and gaming at a loss, since they would be assured of making a lot of money on the games regardless. None of the Blu Ray manufacturers were interested in getting into a "who can be cheapest" pissing match with Toshiba. Their strategy was significantly differet from Toshiba's. Toshiba isn't a studio (like Sony) and doesn't have a gaming platform (like Sony). They also were never able to convince Microsoft to make a gaming platform centered around their HD player. Microsoft's strategy was centered on price to garner market share and never took the necessary step to make an HD machine that was integral to their gaming platform. Their HD player was just an add-on device that was never accepted to a large degree by their consumers.


Both Toshiba and Sony's consortium used money to cement studio relationships and most of these contracts had fail safe clauses if they ended up with the format that wasn't successful in the marketplace. We all know what ultimately happened.

I'm sure if Blu Ray had not existed, Toshiba's HD player prices would have been drastically higher.

Greg

[hharris4earthlink]

Terry,

Remember your list was to bolster the argument that HD players were going up because Blu-ray was the winner, but it's hardly fair to use your list as proof. There has always been a market for expensive electronics whose increased performance may or may not be in the imagination of the user.

What I'm saying is that the manufacturing cost always goes down with a new mass-produced piece of technology. But the most expensive category has always been the hand-made items explicitly made for people with large disposable incomes, but made in much smaller numbers and therefore will have a negligible effect on the average price of a particular category of electronics.

Henry (not Hank)