TiVo and the satellite TV service Dish Network (and its parent company, EchoStar) have been embroiled in a series of legal actions over TiVo’s claims of patent infringement. Last year, TiVo won a $200 million judgment against Dish, but a federal appeals court recently decided that it will review that decision and the claim that [...]
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HDTV Almanac - TiVo Loses Latest Round
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alfredpoor
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Roger Halstead
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Tvio patents
I find it strange that Tvio was given patents on what was being used in computers at the time unless the patents pertain to a specific method/implementation of time shifting.
IIRC At present nearly every computer that has the capability of receiving TV signals such as media centers has the capability of time shifting, at least all of mine do.
IIRC At present nearly every computer that has the capability of receiving TV signals such as media centers has the capability of time shifting, at least all of mine do.
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alfredpoor
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Nothing surprises me...
Roger, I don't pretend to understand the patent process in this country, but I will be the first to admit that nothing surprises me when it comes to patent disputes. The PTO appears to award patents first and ask questions later, if ever. The appropriate time to defend a patent appears to be when it becomes the focus of a lawsuit. It seems to me to be an extremely inefficient process that just runs up the legal fees, and does not give a patent holder any confidence that they will be able to prevail in court. It seems to me that the deep-pockets party can almost always count on winning if they want to spend enough, burying the smaller opposition under a pile of expensive paper.
Who's right in this TiVo vs. Dish dispute? I really don't know. Yes, computers can now record television broadcasts, but did TiVo file a patent on that before these products shipped? Does TiVo deserve to protect the concepts that they developed, and its shareholders deserve to earn a share of money that is based on that? Should Dish be obligated to pay licensing fees on ideas that were publicly discussed before TiVo got their patents? It's muddy water, and I don't expect that it will get resolved soon.
Alfred
Who's right in this TiVo vs. Dish dispute? I really don't know. Yes, computers can now record television broadcasts, but did TiVo file a patent on that before these products shipped? Does TiVo deserve to protect the concepts that they developed, and its shareholders deserve to earn a share of money that is based on that? Should Dish be obligated to pay licensing fees on ideas that were publicly discussed before TiVo got their patents? It's muddy water, and I don't expect that it will get resolved soon.
Alfred
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ccclvib
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Does anyone besides me remember Replay TV? My memory (and it could be totally wrong) has them selling product even before TiVo. Theirs did the same thing, only they got pushed aside quickly, and you just don't hear from them now. Checking with Google I find they're now owned by DirecTV, so they're still operational, and they're how DirecTV keeps from being embroiled in the patent mess with Dish and TiVo. But, what's different about them? And how does that fit with the Dish/TiVo thing?
Mike Richardson
Capitola, CA
On the shores of the blue - and cold - Pacific
Capitola, CA
On the shores of the blue - and cold - Pacific
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acellier
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TiVo: just another greedy, anti-competitive corporation
Has anyone noticed that there are NO equivalents to the old VHS on the market? Apparently this is due to locking up the simple notion of recording a broadcast? Seems rather a disservice to the public at large. Personally we have always boycotted TiVo, and Replay, feeling that monthly fees for what could be done with a VHS are unwarranted. And, our Mac Mini does the job just fine.
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ccclvib
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Because I'm not involved with Mac, I'd appreciate hearing what's required to have a Mac Mini record a program. Do you get a program grid from some source the computer can use? Or, do you set the recording time and channel based on some other source? Dish (and I'm sure DirecTV) makes it painless. Just click on the program block and decide how many times - except for local stations Dish doesn't know about (there are more than a few). Those require complete manual programming - but they do end up with the video file on the Dish DVR for viewing when we want.
Mike Richardson
Capitola, CA
On the shores of the blue - and cold - Pacific
Capitola, CA
On the shores of the blue - and cold - Pacific
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acellier
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Mac Mini
Our Mac Mini has been our multi-media center for 4 years. We receive broadcast TV (over-the-air) using an external USB digital tuner, and EyeTV software. The software includes a program click - click and shoot. There are several competitive alternatives for the software and the hardware. Our Sharp LCD TV has a Firewire port, allowing recording directly from the TV without an external tuner - but in that mode, as the Sharp has no second tuner, one can't watch a different program while recording. Thus the external tuner is nicer.
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akirby
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DirecTV made a settlement with Tivo on the patent issues. At the time DirecTV was selling Tivo powered DVRs, and I believe a new version of Tivo powered DirecTV DVRs are on the way now.
Tivo and ReplayTV were both introduced in 1999. If you've never used a modern DVR then you don't understand that you're paying for a comprehensive, complete and up to date online program guide and the ability to do smart recordings (record a show any time it's on with or without repeats, etc.) It costs these companies money to keep this guide up to date and distribute it, so why shouldn't they get a monthly fee? Would you be willing to do that type of work for free?
Tivo and ReplayTV were both introduced in 1999. If you've never used a modern DVR then you don't understand that you're paying for a comprehensive, complete and up to date online program guide and the ability to do smart recordings (record a show any time it's on with or without repeats, etc.) It costs these companies money to keep this guide up to date and distribute it, so why shouldn't they get a monthly fee? Would you be willing to do that type of work for free?
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alfredpoor
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What is "free" worth?
akirby, I agree that if someone creates something and chooses to charge for it, then using that product without paying for it is akin to stealing. I've made much of my living with this sort of business model, so I tend to side with the content creator.
However, there are lots of models that do not charge the end user. They find other ways to fund the service. What do you pay for Google searches? Google has invested millions (if not billions) in equipment, labor, and other costs to make the search (and other applications) possible, yet they are free. In the area of program listings, those are still broadcast over the air for free and can be used by digital video recorders. TitanTV has a similar free service on the Web which can link to TV tuner card software such as that from Hauppauge so that you can program your computer to recorder over-the-air video for free just like you could with a VCR. The problem is that this free-to-the-consumer model makes it more difficult for TiVo to justify their subscription fees.
As for DVRs, Panasonic used to have recorders that included an internal hard drive. It appears that the only models that they have now are ones that write to DVDs, which is not much use for HD, but you may still be able to find some of the older models on the market. The problem is that most U.S. households have a subscription TV service, and these often offer DVR-type functions for a low cost. The only people who need a no-subscription-fee DVR are those of us who only get our programming for free over the air, and it's probably too small a market to target with a piece of hardware.
Alfred
However, there are lots of models that do not charge the end user. They find other ways to fund the service. What do you pay for Google searches? Google has invested millions (if not billions) in equipment, labor, and other costs to make the search (and other applications) possible, yet they are free. In the area of program listings, those are still broadcast over the air for free and can be used by digital video recorders. TitanTV has a similar free service on the Web which can link to TV tuner card software such as that from Hauppauge so that you can program your computer to recorder over-the-air video for free just like you could with a VCR. The problem is that this free-to-the-consumer model makes it more difficult for TiVo to justify their subscription fees.
As for DVRs, Panasonic used to have recorders that included an internal hard drive. It appears that the only models that they have now are ones that write to DVDs, which is not much use for HD, but you may still be able to find some of the older models on the market. The problem is that most U.S. households have a subscription TV service, and these often offer DVR-type functions for a low cost. The only people who need a no-subscription-fee DVR are those of us who only get our programming for free over the air, and it's probably too small a market to target with a piece of hardware.
Alfred
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acellier
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"free"
alfred, I certainly do hope that you are not implying that those of us who use alternate (purchased) products to record television are stealing from TiVo!
akirby, some of us don’t care for or need that “comprehensive, complete and up to date online program guide” and can live happily with the EyeTV program matrix and/or the broadcast ATV grid (which are in fact comprehensive, complete and up to date).
Some of us see the bulk of available content as that “vast wasteland” noted by Minow years ago.
akirby, some of us don’t care for or need that “comprehensive, complete and up to date online program guide” and can live happily with the EyeTV program matrix and/or the broadcast ATV grid (which are in fact comprehensive, complete and up to date).
Some of us see the bulk of available content as that “vast wasteland” noted by Minow years ago.