Onkyo TR-ND809 bug re HDMI output resolution

[jimadams]

Either I have a problem or Onkyo does. I just purchased a TX-NR809 and I believe it’s got a bad bug.

Brief history: I have a Mits WS65819 CRT RPTV calibrated by none other than Richard Fisher in the early-mid 2000s. I also have an HDFury3 which is used in-between my Oppo 83 programmed to output everything at 1080i over HDMI which the HDF3 then converts to pristine YPbPr component analog for the Mit’s 1080i HD port.

Now, once received, I upgraded the Onk’s F/W online using the front panel display. Then I wanted to view the Setup menus on the Mits without hooking anything up. I used the front panel to set Monitor Out = HDMI Main and the Resolution to Auto/ 1080i where the choices are 480p/720p/1080i/1080p as well as 1080p/24 and 4K Upconvert. This setting is supposed to lock the Onk’s HDMI output res to whatever the user wants and, convert all inputs to HDMI out using HQV Vida. Great. Hooked the HDF3 to HDMI Main and HDF3 component outs to the Mits and saw something that looked scrambled or at a scan-rate unfamiliar to the Mits. So, long story short I redid the res setup many times, many ways – same thing. None of the Onk’s selections made any difference. I just saw rolling, color zig-zags with the Onk’s intended set-up menu output embedded as in I could see screen changes.

First test: Simply removed the HDMI cable from the Onk and moved it to the Oppo (set to output 1080i). That works fine.

Second test: Connected a small LCD HDTV directly to the Onk via HDMI and got a picture! I pressed INFO and the little TV says it’s receiving 1920x1080p. Huh? Well that’s not right. I left the Onk in 1080i. Longer story short, I stepped through all of the Onk’s normal output res selections and the TV always reported 1080p. My theory is that the Onk isn’t obeying my command. The Onk’s OSD says I’ve selected whatever but it outputs 1080p regardless.

See any holes in my experiments?

The TX-NR809 users manual is online.

Jim

[jimadams]

Listen up folks and see my original post The Onkyo TX-NR809 disallows you to adjust its HDMI Main output resolution to your display's native resolution. It makes you think you have set that output res to whatever you need but it does not change. It's always 1080p. Most folks don't see this bug if they have newer displays. But they will have a problem if they have older 720p flatscreens or projectors.

I'm looking for some confirmation on this matter. I need to know if this issue has been previously surfaced. I need to know whether to send my 809 back b/c it's defective. Richard Fisher, if you are out there please comment.

Users Manual see page 45:

http://filedepot.onkyousa.com/Files/own ... 6f3b442719
Jim Adams

[jimadams]

I realize that I am talking to myself but I find it theuroputic(sp?).

I got a suggestion from an AVS forum member and TX-NR809 owner from the UK today suggesting that my misunderstanding of how to nail the Onk's HDMI video out res to 1080i had to do with what I was doing with the 809's INPUT set-up. His suggestion had to do with setting "Direct" or pass-through which seemed like the wrong idea. I wrote back the following:


My issue is very simple and I don't understand why folks don't understand. I've been a video + surround sound-marriage junky ever since VHS movies came out with HiFi soundtracks. I've owned several Lexicon products and boy are they fun to read.

OK.

Rule #1: I do not wish ANY of my input sources to dictate my HDMI Main output resolution. I wish to establish one HDMI Main output resolution no matter what's being input. I wish to see the Menu in 1080i as well as everything else.

Note: I wish to use the HQV Vida video processor because I respect it and I paid for it so going Direct or "passing through" seems like a work-around. What about my old video cam stuff? I want Mr. HQV Vida to do his magic on anything I throw at it and output 1080i.

Rule #2: Refer to Rule #1 and loop forever.

How does one force the '809 to lock to a 1080i HDMI output res? 1080i is a global broadcast standard for god's sake...

Befuddled in the USA,

Anybody?

Jim Adams

[Dave3putt]

You're sure you are hooking into the HDMI Main port and not the HDMI Sub port on the Onk?

[jimadams]

My comments and answers ar based on a direct HDMI connection between Onk's HDMI Main and a 20" LCD TV's HDMI input. I am using this TV as my "probe" to see what's going on with the Onk's HDMI output. I have no other equipment connected to the Onk.

- I am absolutely certain that I am connectied to HDMI Main and have selected Monitor Out = HDMI Main on page 45.

- Also on page 45 under Resolution I have selected 1080i. I can leave the Set-up menu, return and the 1080i selection is still there.

- With the Set-up screen visible on the LCD TV, if I press INFO on its remote it says that its video input is 1920x1080p. This is a Best Buy store brand Dynex 720p-native TV but it's internal scaler is happy to up or down-convert.

- If I now set the Onk's Resolution to say 480p, same thing. The TV still says its input is 1080p. Same thing with 720p and 1080p/24 or 4K. You would think a cheap TV would have a problem with those last two but no, it always reports 1080p.

- How do I know whether or not the TV is lying to me? I direct-connected my Oppo BD DVD player to it where the Oppo is programmed to only output 1080i no matter what the media is. Now I'm watching a SD DVD movie and the little TV says it's receiving a 1080i signal so that's proof enough for me that the Onk is simply NOT allowing the user to specify HDMI Resolution.

- I played around with the Source settings on page 55 and got nowhere.

- All of the above explains why my Mitsubishi 1080i 65" CRT rear projector is displaying an image that looks like it can't sync to the analog component output of my HDFury, HDMI => YPbPr component converter. Why? Because the HDFury is doing its job. It is sensing the Onk's 1080p digital stream and dutifully outputing 1080p analog to my CRT's 1080i component input. And that is why the Set-up menu image is there but is zig-zagged and rolling.

- How do I know the HDMI => HDFury => 1080i CRT component chain is all good? I simply move the HDMI cable from the Onk to the fixed-output Oppo with the same SD DVD playing and all is fine - as always.

If you don't know what an HDFury is, it's a not-so-legal device with a Silicon Image video processor inside. On the HDMI side it always presents itself as an HDCP compliant device and does the proper handshaking with the host. It then unpacks the HDMI video stream and constructs either a five-wire RGBHV or three-wire YPbPr analog output according to the DIP switch setting. It is strictly a D-to-A format converter and does not lie. Digital res IN = Analog res OUT.

So that's where I'm at. For whatever reason the Onk defaults to 1080p no matter what the user's Set-up preference is. The Onk leads you to believe it has been fixed to your chosen res via the front panel and the Set-up menu diplays - but it's simply not so. The experiments with the little TV proves that theory as well as the pattern I see on my 1080i display. Neither are lying.

One last observation: Sometimes when connected to my CRT projector I get a perfect image of the word "ONKYO" on the screen for about 2-3 seconds then get the out-of-sync look.

So I'm out of ideas as I can not even get a menu over HDMI which I guess means that the user's preference is not being communicated to the HQV video scaler. What on Earth am I missing???

[Dave3putt]

As per pages 45,55, and 56, try setting the resolution to source instead of auto. Also, how about just taking the Fury out of the chain and not use HDMI out. Can you not hook your Mits to the Onk with component and let the Onk do all conversions that the Fury did?

[jimadams]

Dave,
I'm pretty sure I tried the Source thing but I'll do it again.

The reason I want to use the HDMI out is that upconverted component, S-video and composite analog inputs processed by the 809's world-class HQV Vida chip are only available at the HDMI output. That's been a law for many, many years now. The "industry" does not want high definition signals exiting an analog output even if they are the up-scaled version of an original standard-def source. For example, my Oppo has a world-class video processor on-board so if I want it to scale-up a 480i standard DVD it will do that but only at the HDMI output. The most you can get from the component out is 480p. It's a copy protection thing.

There is no HQV processing available on the component output.

As I tried to explain the HDFury is not a substitute for the HQV video engine in the 809. It is merely there at the Onk's HDMI output to appear to be a legitimate digital display like for example a 50" Panasonic plasma. And as such, get's all the wonderful video processing available from the HQV like up-scaling standard def inputs, noise reduction, edge and other enhancements, etc.

I want the 809 to be a manifold wherein I select the input, the HQV goes to work if necessary and I get 1080i at the HDMI out. The HDF then converts that to three-wire 1080i component which the Mits can digest. Understand now?

Jim

[Dave3putt]

Yeah, I guess I knew that about the upscaling. Sorry. When you updated the firmware, did all appear to go smooth and normal? Too bad you didn't try the connections before the update. I'll look around some more to see if there is other info out there. You could call their support - 800) 229-1687. As a one in a thousand shot, unplug the Onkyo overnight. Believe it or not, that has worked for me before.

[jimadams]

Please correct the Subject when you respond to: Onkyo TX-NR809 bug re HDMI output resolution.

I got that model # wrong from the get-go.

Yes I could try that too but I think there's more to it.

Jim

[Dave3putt]

I have an older Integra, and I was going to see may retailer/installer about his best deal on the 50.3. That's the one I would get, even tho I don't really need all the features-now. It's about the same thing. Hence my interest, since my TV is 720p. I could ask him about this. If anyone would know, he would.