I was finally prepared to jump into HD when I purchased a widescreen LCD for my family room and upgraded my Verizon FIOS to the HD receiver. My wife and I were disappointed because of the issue with the black sidebars and letterboxing of some broadcasts. Let me explain:
With an SD broadcast on an SD channel, my HDTV was set to stretch the broadcast to full screen size. Granted, everything looked "wider" this way, but my wife and I didn't mind because the stretch wasn't that much. And watching an HD broadcast on an HD channel was great -- what I was wanting to see all along, but...
With an SD broadcast on an HD channel, my HDTV wouldn't stretch the broadcast anymore (after all, it was receiving an HD signal from the broadcaster/STB) and I would see black sidebars. I know most people don't mind this because the TV is displaying what the creator of the show wanted viewers to see, but to me it was worse because I wasn't using the full size of my HD screen (which is why I bought it in the first place). This might have been livable, except for two specific issues:
1. When a broadcaster broadcast a letterbox-formatted SD show on an HD channel, I would get black sidebars on both sides and on top and bottom - dreadful!
2. When a broadcaster had both HD and SD to broadcast on one HD channel (an HD movie, for example, with SD commercials), the TV would swap between displaying full screen show and commercials with sidebars - very irritating.
So, I've dropped my HD STB and went back to plain SD on my HDTV and everything I watch now fills the entire screen.
My question to the forum is isn't there anything available (commercially or do-it-yourself) that can automatically remove black sidebars from an HD signal and stretch the remaining picture to fill an HD screen? With the power of today's media PC's and such, I would think this would be easy to find, but I've searched for some time and can't find anything that comes close.
Comments? Suggestions?
Removing Sidebars
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JazzGuyy
- Member
- Posts: 26
- Joined: Thu Jul 17, 2008 2:20 pm
No, there isn't. Because the sidebars are part of the program. With something like an SD broadcast, the sidebars are not in the program source but are created by your TV. You can choose to stretch this material instead, though with a distorted picture, which you seem not to mind. With an HD broadcast, the picture that is sent to your set is using the full signal and any side bars are part of the picture. Since that picture (with the embedded sidebars) completely fills your screen, you cannot stretch it. Some TVs have a zoom mode that will allow you to zoom in on the picture and thus cut part of the picture off on all sides and will also lose some resolution.
The real answer is to get used to variable aspect ratios.
The real answer is to get used to variable aspect ratios.
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eliwhitney
- Major Contributor
- Posts: 484
- Joined: Thu Dec 07, 2006 5:14 am
- Location: Oklahoma
Morning mikepl and Welcome here w/ first posting!!
Yet another 'take' on the need or near-need of perpetual display sizing adjustments ...
One needs to understand / know that lots of programs are really 'SD' which is manipulated to seem as 'HD.' That just "adds" to the confusion, unfortunately.
In my experiences helping others w/ the installations of various Brands over the past few years, None of the "automatic" internal design features or options actually work-all-that-well. "IF" these are set to .. auto .. then, the constant display changing (during commercials, then, back to programming) can be quite annoying, in fact!
You didn't 'post' the Model of the HDTV - but - - as JazzGuyy explained - - there usually ARE several display sizing options on each the HDTV AND the "HD" set top box.
Best get accustomed to finding out which of those many 'buttons' of each the TV's Remote as well as that FIOS one DO this 'instantly', so that YOU may do try / accomplish on every show / each Channel / every time / select what IS satisfactory!
Same nonsense but necessary action as using that "mute" for all commercials, huh?
eli
p.s - - for those w/ plasma sets, this .. essentially always full screen ..Must become a "religion" in order to avoid panel issues later!
Yet another 'take' on the need or near-need of perpetual display sizing adjustments ...
One needs to understand / know that lots of programs are really 'SD' which is manipulated to seem as 'HD.' That just "adds" to the confusion, unfortunately.
In my experiences helping others w/ the installations of various Brands over the past few years, None of the "automatic" internal design features or options actually work-all-that-well. "IF" these are set to .. auto .. then, the constant display changing (during commercials, then, back to programming) can be quite annoying, in fact!
You didn't 'post' the Model of the HDTV - but - - as JazzGuyy explained - - there usually ARE several display sizing options on each the HDTV AND the "HD" set top box.
Best get accustomed to finding out which of those many 'buttons' of each the TV's Remote as well as that FIOS one DO this 'instantly', so that YOU may do try / accomplish on every show / each Channel / every time / select what IS satisfactory!
Same nonsense but necessary action as using that "mute" for all commercials, huh?
eli
p.s - - for those w/ plasma sets, this .. essentially always full screen ..Must become a "religion" in order to avoid panel issues later!
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andrewleblanccox
- Member
- Posts: 24
- Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2005 2:28 am
I am amazed, how much of the poululation is content to look at stretched and distorted images on their hd screens, simply
to have the entire screen filled! Mikepl needs to either get used to the display of a natural image with side bars, and occasional
top and bottom bars, or subscribe to a satellite service which allows the user to re-size the image of hd broadcasts on the satellite
receiver. Of course when doing this, image clarity is compromized. I totally avoid broadcasters which stretch images and call them
hd!
to have the entire screen filled! Mikepl needs to either get used to the display of a natural image with side bars, and occasional
top and bottom bars, or subscribe to a satellite service which allows the user to re-size the image of hd broadcasts on the satellite
receiver. Of course when doing this, image clarity is compromized. I totally avoid broadcasters which stretch images and call them
hd!
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Dave3putt
- Major Contributor
- Posts: 195
- Joined: Sun Sep 05, 2004 7:07 pm
- Location: Fargo, North Dakota
Most STB's have a "4:3 override" type option in the setup menu that controls how SD is displayed on a widescreen. This can be set to stretch all SD and leave the HD alone. You would still get the bars on HD programming that is not widescreen, such as some commercials, but that would not be the end of the world- at least to me.
You are not "wasting" your widescreen if the picture is not filled out all the time, IMO. The shape of a widescreen is a compromise, trying to show different shapes in an acceptable way.
You are not "wasting" your widescreen if the picture is not filled out all the time, IMO. The shape of a widescreen is a compromise, trying to show different shapes in an acceptable way.
Dave
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Rodolfo
- Author
- Posts: 755
- Joined: Wed Sep 01, 2004 8:46 pm
- Location: Lansdowne VA
2 black bars are better than 4
Mikepl,
I agree with the responses given to you. If there is a consolation:
A) This problem started since day one (1998). After 10 years most early adopters got accustomed to the fact that fitting a squarish image into a rectangle would never be perfect, and not many options are left to apply to the task than the ones available thru the STB and the TV, including the auto fit, which is a blessing for many, especially the plasma owners.
B) The resolution of the image is affected when stretching it too much, in addition to the geometry changes. Therefore, maintaining the 4:3 image within two sidebars provides you a better image, in addition to better contrast on that part of the image, although smaller than the landscape of your TV.
C) Wait until you see a letterboxed movie placed into an SD 4:3 original program, and that image is fit at the source into a 16:9 full mode image. You will get 4 black bars. Two bars above and below for the letterboxing, and two pillars on the sides for the SD image to fit into the 16:9 for delivery. Neither of those you can change because the 4 bars are part of the final image sent to you.
D) Did I read wrong, that you are disabling HD reception due to this problem? I recommend for you not to do that. There is a big difference in viewing an HD image arriving to your TV with 9 times the resolution and displayed that way, than having a downgraded HD image arrive to your TV as SD, and let the TV CREATE pixels to scale up and displaying it as a pseudo-HD.
If this auto image adjustment disrupts your viewing, I suggest not letting the TV do the auto adjust and accept that some part of a 16:9 tuned-program might come as 4:3 with sidebars, such as the advertising. That way you are getting the best resolution and contrast of either format without distorting the geometry of either.
As another poster mentioned it, a plasma owner would have to be more careful with prolonged viewing with ANY black bars (including letting the TV unattended displaying long hours of fixed images, such as video games or bottom bars like Bloomberg stock quotes, ESPN scores).
Best Regards,
Rodolfo La Maestra
I agree with the responses given to you. If there is a consolation:
A) This problem started since day one (1998). After 10 years most early adopters got accustomed to the fact that fitting a squarish image into a rectangle would never be perfect, and not many options are left to apply to the task than the ones available thru the STB and the TV, including the auto fit, which is a blessing for many, especially the plasma owners.
B) The resolution of the image is affected when stretching it too much, in addition to the geometry changes. Therefore, maintaining the 4:3 image within two sidebars provides you a better image, in addition to better contrast on that part of the image, although smaller than the landscape of your TV.
C) Wait until you see a letterboxed movie placed into an SD 4:3 original program, and that image is fit at the source into a 16:9 full mode image. You will get 4 black bars. Two bars above and below for the letterboxing, and two pillars on the sides for the SD image to fit into the 16:9 for delivery. Neither of those you can change because the 4 bars are part of the final image sent to you.
D) Did I read wrong, that you are disabling HD reception due to this problem? I recommend for you not to do that. There is a big difference in viewing an HD image arriving to your TV with 9 times the resolution and displayed that way, than having a downgraded HD image arrive to your TV as SD, and let the TV CREATE pixels to scale up and displaying it as a pseudo-HD.
If this auto image adjustment disrupts your viewing, I suggest not letting the TV do the auto adjust and accept that some part of a 16:9 tuned-program might come as 4:3 with sidebars, such as the advertising. That way you are getting the best resolution and contrast of either format without distorting the geometry of either.
As another poster mentioned it, a plasma owner would have to be more careful with prolonged viewing with ANY black bars (including letting the TV unattended displaying long hours of fixed images, such as video games or bottom bars like Bloomberg stock quotes, ESPN scores).
Best Regards,
Rodolfo La Maestra