HD DVD Rallies Consumer Audience in 2007 Driving Nearly One Million Dedicated Player Sales in North America

free2speak · Post by **free2speak** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:02 pm

I agree finding movies locally is the most important thing. A good price is a close second. The last time I went to Walmart the HD DVD section was twice as large as the previous visit. There still wasn't much though. More $20 and less HD DVD and I am there. I even sent a comment to Walmart that I need more movies to buy. If they want me to choose Amazon with the larger selection and free shipping then what can I do? I did notice Matrix HD DVD at Walmart was less than Amazon, but I bet I can't find it at my local store. I will visit Walmart again soon to see what is happening. Walmart could make a difference with inexpensive HD DVD. I would have a Toshiba HD DVD player connected to a HDTV running in my store all the time.

free2speak · Post by **free2speak** » Fri Jan 25, 2008 6:10 pm

Richard wrote:I can choose between two cable providers and it has not reflected a drop in pricing at all! If you don't like cable go satellite and those prices aren't dropping either.

I agree completely. I don't think they are competing; I think they are colluding to maintain high prices. I just saw recent Comcast rate increases which will probably add $8-$10 to my bill. I love the Comcast HD cable and internet service, but I pay a dear price for it. My city just signed another long term contract to keep exclusive Comcast in business. Satellite is not the cost effective answer either. I am not going to invest money in the same old high bill, but with different provider.

Richard · Post by **Richard** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 1:41 pm

A lengthy answer to your last question Allen and hopefully the history will be revealing. The story as I recall goes something like this... all members please feel free to correct me where I am mistaken...

In the mid 90s Toshiba developed the DVD and held most of the royalties. To bring everybody together under one format they created the DVD Forum for manufacturers, content providers and software to be lead by membership consensus. On the surface that all seemed to work well but underneath things were going on that many were not pleased with. As a consortium everybody had their special feature wish turning the DVD spec into a complex standard that manufacturers had a difficult time maintaining compatibility with making it difficult for creators to implement all supposedly available features for fear some of those features may not work right with all players.

Sony had already introduced the blu-ray format for HDTV in Japan about 10 years ago. It was about late 2002 that Sony introduced their first HDTV tuner/recorder to the US market utilizing blu-ray in a caddy (a bit fuzzy on this - could have been a player for Japan and there was some inference of the first US bound product).

About that same time JVC took a stab at delivering HDTV movies with D-Theater utilizing DVHS, video tape, which also allowed recording of ATSC streams and many used these for time shifting and archiving of broadcast HDTV. Except for performance enthusiasts it never took off because the mass market wanted the shiny disc and I don

akirby · Post by **akirby** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 6:39 pm

Thanks for the history lesson Richard!

DavidEC · Post by **DavidEC** » Sun Jan 27, 2008 9:18 pm

Richard wrote:......format on blu-ray or support those benefactors. The blu-ray camp won the format and royalty war. The HD DVD camp can go lick their wounds while Toshiba and Microsoft apply for a blu-ray license just like the beta camp did for a VHS license about two decades ago.

Yea and in the early '80's everybody was saying 'VHS' was dead as BETA was out selling VHS and in many market areas you could rent/purchase 'Beta' tapes easier than 'VHS' time frame '1984'.. Many pre-recorded movies were only available on Beta...
VHS & BETA Had been fighting for at least six years by then.. then something happened...
NEW prerecorded 'BETA' tapes would not play in the older machines any longer due to a minor change in the recording / tracking system.. ..many of my 'Beta Friends' went and purchased a VHS machine due to.. VHS-HiFi machines started selling for half the price of the BETA MONO machines... '1985'

So lets see now we have two formats fighting.... one of them on the market now will not be able to play future releases... I can easily see history repeating itself again.... where the winner declared by the press ends up loosing again....
And now one of the large sales reporting companies is stating that their number may of been 'misinterrupted/misread' and they are now stating their number my of been off for weeks... not just the recent weekly sales which caught their eye and caused them to put out a press release about the wrong numbers.

--David

stevekaden · Post by **stevekaden** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:08 am

I don't know about the rest of the US, but I live in LA. I can't drive more than a few blocks without seeing a Blu-Ray ad: Video billboards, regular billboards, big ones, little ones. A 40x40 banner on EACH side of a building right on the 405. About 300,000 cars a day drive right by them. in EACH direction.

Then there is the TV advertising of the PS3 for it's game AND Blu-Ray aspects. And the paper advertising. And the co-marketing. Then the free players.

Then there is the full (old) price HD DVD player in a Big Box circular - next to a Blu-Ray player at just $100 more - if you don't buy the TV on the next page with the free player. (Who would pick the perceived 'loser' for a $100 difference.)

There appears to be massive amount of advertising going on - and I bet other big cities are seeing the same thing. Sony must be betting the farm, after betting the farm. I don't think I've seen any blitz like this before.

Again, I'm an HD DVD guy, but the 'news' (aka. hype) media is even being pushed aside as irrelevant at this point. Sony and partners are utterly unrestrained and I again use the word Stomped for HD DVD's chances. Snow balls in H... have a better chance.

Richard · Post by **Richard** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 10:30 am

DavidEC wrote:So lets see now we have two formats fighting.... one of them on the market now will not be able to play future releases...

Not sure what you are talking about? I know blu-ray will have a problem with special features on new titles played in 1st gen players but the main feature, the movie, should be fine.

?

DavidEC · Post by **DavidEC** » Mon Jan 28, 2008 5:26 pm

If I can find the article I will post the link.. but in short what is was saying that 'IF' Java/BD-Live is used on a future release that none of the disc will be readable on the older machines, because the menu system would be written in this new format and it would be used to access the movie and the extras?

As with so much information much is misleading or down right wrong.

Like "IF" I wanted to go 'Blu' now I have been told to get a PS3.. but for this PS3 to function with my Harmony Remote I would have to spend another $50 to $100 for an 'IR' "Dongle"...which will not even give me full fuction of the machine even then {such as power MUST be done at the machine}

--David

free2speak · Post by **free2speak** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 3:29 pm

I don't know about BD Java on future players. More important is early BD players do not have the hardware for future features. They can't handle PIP and they do not have network connections.

regeya · Post by **regeya** » Tue Jan 29, 2008 11:10 pm

Dale wrote:I am hoping that some of you (or all of you) have already done a thorough job of investigative reporting and can offer us quickly a solid set of reasons for a conclusion (choice). Most of the arguments I have seen of late go feebly to finger pointing at "greedy manufacturers and manipulative studios" making smelly deals behind closed doors. That kind of argument can be taken up after we know all the more substantive facts and reasons for making a sound choice. Then we will know what is odorous and what is not.

Personally my choice was fairly poorly thought out: I bought a HD-A3 at the tail end of the holiday pricing season. Only being able to do 1080i wasn't an issue as I have a low-end TV, also purchased at the end of the holiday season. The decision to buy new equipment was made for me by a bad surge protector and a freak bolt of lightning. I had hoped to wait until buying better equipment was financially feasable...but there it is.

The rest of my decision, after reading up on the two, was as follows:

Although Blu had a number of technical advantages and seemed more "future proof" than HD DVD, there was the notion that for the price of a decent upconverting DVD player I could get a decent upconverting DVD player that also played high-def content. Plus there was the Sony factor; not hatred of Sony, no, as I have a number of Sony devices around the house, but rather their poor track record in selling their own formats.

Although Blu had the support of Disney, it was really sort of evenly split studio-wise from what I saw.

Although attach rates and software sales were better for Blu, sales were terrible for both. I figured whoever sold the first sub-$200 player would win. We know how that one turned out, and how wrong that ended up being.

I would love to see hard numbers on sales of both formats, especially for the Christmas season. Yes, boards are full of jerks, and I won't deny being one, but none of us (at least not many of us) are looking at real data. If you look at sites like eProductWars, you'll be left scratching your head...but that's representative only of a population segment which shops at Amazon.com. I'd be willing to bet that non-bundled standalone player sales actually favored HD DVD; could be wrong, and even amongst that you could run into people like me who now have an upscaler that says "HD DVD" on the front.

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HD DVD Rallies Consumer Audience in 2007 Driving Nearly One Million Dedicated Player Sales in North America

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