HD DVD Rallies Consumer Audience in 2007 Driving Nearly One Million Dedicated Player Sales in North America

[miller]

What advantage does the consumer get in having 2 different formats?

Answering my question with a question ... very well:

The first thing that comes to mind, assuming all studios are publishing in both formats, is competition. Keeps player prices low, keeps media low.

I guarantee you that if/when HD DVD bows out, you will see an almost immediate end to all BOGO and half-price Blu-ray sales.

So, I answered your question, how about taking a stab at answering mine?

- Miller

[miller]

Eliminate consumer confusion, optimize economies of scale, add disk capacity (Blu ray side), re-establish or establish retailer satisfaction, improve industry gross in all DVD-related sales

You still haven't answered my question. All those things may be true, but they would also apply to the gaming industry, yes?

I will ask again, just so you are crystal clear on what I'm asking ("I don't know" is an acceptable answer):

If the gaming industry can sustain two formats, why not home video?

Thanks,

- Miller

[akirby]

The first thing that comes to mind, assuming all studios are publishing in both formats, is competition. Keeps player prices low, keeps media low.

I guarantee you that if/when HD DVD bows out, you will see an almost immediate end to all BOGO and half-price Blu-ray sales.

So, I answered your question, how about taking a stab at answering mine?

- Miller

I already answered your question - you just didn't like the answer.

You're assuming that with only one format there is no competition for players. With only one format to worry about every major electronics mfr (Sony, Samsung, LG, Toshiba, etc.) will make competing Blu-Ray players. It worked great for standard DVDs with one format - why would this be any different? In fact we should have more competing versions of a single format than we would for each of 2 formats since some mfrs would choose one or the other, not both.

The BOGOs and half-price sales (as well as the lost leader cheap players) were temporary anyway. Both sides are trying to buy their way into market share and they are (or were) spending huge amounts of money and there is no way that is sustainable over the long haul. At some point you either fold your hand or agree to split the pot.

If your arguments were valid then why did we not see these problems with standard DVD? You can buy a DVD player now for $19 and DVDs are also dirt cheap. Why would Blu-Ray be any different?

[Richard]

assuming all studios are publishing in both formats

But that is not what happened from the start...

[miller]

That is the assumption I am making Richard. Please re-read from the start for a complete picture.

My claim is that every studio should publish in both formats. It works for the gaming industry ... and this leads to my question: If the gaming industry can sustain two formats, why not home video?


- Miller

[miller]

I already answered your question - you just didn't like the answer.

I asked a question and you replied with a question of your own ... how is that an answer?

You're assuming that with only one format there is no competition for players. With only one format to worry about every major electronics mfr (Sony, Samsung, LG, Toshiba, etc.) will make competing Blu-Ray players. It worked great for standard DVDs with one format - why would this be any different? In fact we should have more competing versions of a single format than we would for each of 2 formats since some mfrs would choose one or the other, not both.

I'm not assuming anything. You asked what the benefit of more than one format was and I said more competition. That is true, as is your statement above. But is still doesn't answer my question.

The BOGOs and half-price sales (as well as the lost leader cheap players) were temporary anyway. Both sides are trying to buy their way into market share and they are (or were) spending huge amounts of money and there is no way that is sustainable over the long haul. At some point you either fold your hand or agree to split the pot.

If you say so, but that still doesn't answer my question.

If your arguments were valid then why did we not see these problems with standard DVD? You can buy a DVD player now for $19 and DVDs are also dirt cheap. Why would Blu-Ray be any different?

I'm not making any arguements, I am asking a question. It's not rhetorical, I don't know the answer, I'm hoping someone here does.

So one LAST time:

If the gaming industry can sustain two formats, why not home video?

- Miller

[Richard]

That's easy... the studios obviously don't want to (along with others in the distribution chain) taking us right back to...

assuming all studios are publishing in both formats

But that is not what happened from the start...

akirby did a great job of explaining the differences in previous posts.

I ask the same question of you I asked of Phil...

Are you saying that 2-3 years ago you were for another format war and that would be in the public

[miller]

akirby did a great job of explaining the differences in previous posts.

He didn't list any differences, he listed similarities. All the items he listed apply to both movie and gaming industries alike, and therefore did not help answer my question.

Are you saying that 2-3 years ago you were for another format war and that would be in the public

[akirby]

Here is your answer, for the second time. Did you not see it or did you just ignore it because you don't like the answer?

My point is that the gaming industry can support 2 formats, why not home video? That is the question I want answered. Why is the media (this site included) so bent on driving a wedge between these formats and placing emphasis on a "winner", when it appears both can co-exist peacefully?

Because the game consoles are driven by specific game titles. If you want Mario you buy a Nintendo and then you play that Mario game for months, even years. Same for Gran Turismo on PS2 (and soon PS3). I know Xbox has proprietary games, too. It's easy to justify a second console if you want the games that go with it because you'll get months or years out of them.

Contrast that with the average consumer who wants to watch a movie in HD - probably once, maybe twice and it should be obvious why they're reluctant to deal with 2 formats and 2 players. Not to mention the cost (especially if you discount the Toshiba lost leaders).

I was in Fry's recently doing some Christmas shopping. Their aisles are approximately 40 feet long. Video games (for all formats) took up 1.5 aisles. DVDs (in just one format) took up at least 6 if not 8 aisles. Double that and you can see why retailers are nervous.

I don't understand why this is such an emotional issue. If the end result is quality HD movies in one format with less total cost and no confusion - how can that be bad?

[Richard]

Slight difference here. Gaming platforms have major differences that are apparent to even the most average consumer - different controllers, HD capability, networked gaming, etc. including the biggest one - games. Do you think anyone would have bought a Nintendo 64 without Mario? No way. Same for PS2 and Gran Turismo. I'm sure Xbox has similar games that are Xbox exclusive.

Shift to HD movies - the average consumer puts in a disc, pushes play and watches a HD movie with great surround sound. There is no difference between HD DVD and Blu-Ray (again, for the average consumer). Cost is also a factor - it's a little easier to buy 2 video game consoles for as little as $300 than it is to buy both DVD formats for 2-3 times that much with no discernable differences.

We can argue the technological differences forever but that won't change the average consumer's perception.



We seem to have gotten by nicely with just one format for standard DVD. Any company can make a player for both formats, so there's no monopoly on the hardware. To the average consumer, the end result of both formats is identical - viewing a movie in HD on a HDTV.

What can we possibly gain from keeping 2 formats that would offset the hassle of having 2 formats?

You either have to commit to one format and forego content made only for the other format or you have to buy 2 players that deliver essentially the same content at the same resolution. If you're exchanging movies with friends you have to know which format(s) they have.

And there is no way it can be cheaper to mfr movies in both formats or half the movies in one and half in the other.





Go ask those game publishers and retailers if they would prefer one media format over 4 (PS3, Wii, Xbox, PC) and I guarantee you they'll say yes. It definitely costs more but apparently the profits of selling on multiple platforms outweighs the cost. But it's apples and oranges because each platform has something unique whether it's a particular game (Gran Turismo on PS, Mario on Nintendo, etc.) or controller or other feature.
What difference does the average consumer see when comparing HD DVD and Blu-Ray? None. Both deliver a movie in HD with surround sound.

Apples and oranges.

There is more from Greg, allchemie, explaining what the distribution chain wants.

The most common device in the customers home after the TV is a DVD player and before that it was the VHS VCR. Gaming consoles don't even come close to having that kind of common under their belt! The key here is we need to get out of the test tube of what ifs and deal with what is. No law or economic philosophy can explain this, only the wisdom of experience. That collective wisdom cried out for one format before the war started, that is what the mass market and industry wanted. All Sony, Toshiba and their benefactors could see was the shiny pot of royalty gold at the end of the technology rainbow for the winner. THEY wanted the war, not the rest of us!