Installing RG6/U Cable using Wall Plate Connectors, any diff ?

[jswilke]

Herbdrake,

Thanks for the grounding clarification for satellite multiswitched connections...understood.

Jim

[Roger Halstead]

Be sure to check the local codes. Here, all cables must be grounded so with a dual feed both cables must run through a grounding block on the mast or tower (or within a few feet) and *before* they enter the house. Even when running in underground it's a good idea to ground them at the base of the tower otherwise a lightning strike on the tower can put quite a spike through a long run of cable. I would add that the capacitance to ground should bleed off a good deal of the charge.

My OTA antennas and my satellite dish are on a 100 foot tower. ( http://www.rogerhalstead.com/ham_files/Tower26.htm ) The UHF antenna pointing NW is clearly visible while the one pointing south is pretty much invisible. The photo was shot before the dish was mounted. The two UHF antennas with remote preamps are about 90 feet with the small DISH Network dish at roughly 20 feet. All 4 cables go through grounding blocks at the base of the tower and again where they enter the house. They run underground from the tower to the house entrance which is about 75 feet. Actually they go through a grounded bulkhead where they enter the house. That tower takes at least 3 strikes a year. I say "at least" as that many are verified (seen). I've had no damage to any equipment since finishing up the ground system on the overall antenna system. And with that many connectors in line I still have a good signal. I should add the TV antennas and dish are in a rather strong RF environment, but there is no noticeable interaction.

[rubenoid1]

HerbDrake,

I have a new addition to my house and the RG6 cables were run individually to each wall plate. I have a Monster splitter from the main cable TV line. I have a new hdtv that I connected to a previously unused/untested cable and was receiving terrible signal.
Channels 2-10 were practically unviewable then they got better until 73 and then for some strange reason channel 800 (preview channel) was EXCELLENT. Channels 940-960 or so were HD and great.

I was going to leave it like this except I realized that I was not getting any CBS and wanted to watch football. First thing I did was put an old TV set on that line and at least I could see channels 2-10 but all of the channels didn't look so good. Also, sometimes the HD (900) local channels would go out for no reason (no rain etc.).

Thinking the problem might be the splitter, I had a long rg6 line that I ran from the new TV out the window and to the splitter connecting it EXACTLY where the line that it should be using was connected. Voila GORGEOUS Picture on all channels.

I had had a similar problem before and thought that maybe the connectors had been incorrectly installed resulting in some of the braided shielding touching the center wire. I proceeded to cut the cable using and RG6 stripping/cutting tool and connected GE RG6 Crimp Connectors.
I tested and it was even worse! Now I can't get the 900 range channels although channels 3-10 are slightly better. Strangely, channel 800 is still excellent!

I tried disconnecting that cable from the splitter and connecting it directly to the cable input (from cable TV provider) but that did nothing to improve so I'm convinced the splitter is not the problem.

I've connected the TV to other jacks around the house and the picture has been great so I believe there is either a problem on the connectors on that specific cable or the cable is damaged?

The problem is that I have a flat-roof house and as such, there is no easy way to replace the cable. I also remember that particular cable run (since it went in a different direction than the others) and can't imagine what could be causing the problem since is was a clear path from the splitter.

I don't want to keep cutting and crimping connectors -- I'm about to go to radio shack to see if they have some that are better than the ones I bought.


I've done this before but just in case, this is what I do:

Use tool to split/cut cable.
pull back braided mesh a bit. Ensure none is on the center connector.
Push and twist the connector into place until the white insulation is level with bottom of connector.
Crimp using larger of 2 holes (on my crimping tool).

Thanks for your help.

Ruben

[herbdrake]

Ruben

I'ts tough to troubleshoot this kind of problem when you don't have a cable test set (frequency selective voltmeter) to actually measure the signal level at each channel. I carry that thing on every trouble call and would be lost without it. But you do have a TV that is portable enough to carry around and you'll have to use that as your test set.

First off, if you have a digital cable box, don't assume that your cable company's channel numbers have anything whatever to do with the actual physical cable channel on the cable. That's too bad because you really want to be looking at the worse case channels at each point that you test. Also, if your service is 100% digital, you will need to drag the cable box around with the TV to test it. However, if there are analog signals on the cable (used for simulcasting), you might be able to use those with your TV without the cable box. Channel 2 is the lowest and the higher-number channels are highest, but avoid doing any testing with channels 14-22 and 95-99 because those analog channels are not where you might think they are. So if you have an alalog signal on 2 and one that is above 100, use those as your benchmarks.

Splitter failures are rare, but you can check that the connectors on the splitter are not spread apart; if they are, you need to replace the splitter. The biggest splitter problem is the attempt to use vintage splitters. If a splitter does not have a frequency range on it, throw it out. If it does, you probably should get one that goes to 1000 MHz. I'm not impressed with whether a splitter has an atom of gold plating or if it is made by a particular vendor (e.g., Monster). A good professional-grade splitter is what you need. Unfortunatly, the companies that I get that kind of stuff from have $100 minimums so is is not easy for non-professonals to get cable, splitters, connectors, etc., of good quality.

It sounds like you understand the problem of making a good crimp. You don't want any insulation clinging to the center conductor and you don't want the center conductor projecting too far from the connector. You do want the cable insulation to stop at the seat of the connector. You do want the connectors' ferrul to go between the insulation and the shield and you do want to perform a good crimp on the outside of the connector that will compress the shield against the connector's ferrul. You can test a connector with your portable TV set by stressing it (wiggling it) to make sure that it is stable.

It sounds like the cable under the flat roof has failed. Is it possible that the roofers have damaged it? If so, you pretty much are stuck with replacing the cable, running it over the top of the roof. Try to run a single piece of cable, rather than making a bunch of splices. A cable with a half dozen connectors and F81 barrels is a nightmare to troubleshoot, and even when you get it working it can easily fail again when weather gets into it (especially avoid splices outdoors where moisture can penetrate the connector. Never put splitters outside in the weather -- if the must go outside, put them under eaves where rain will not get to them. Professionals will put splitters behind wall plates where they are out of the weather but still accessible. (Never put a splitter behind a wall where you can't get at it!).

So you can start with your splitter and bring your portable TV there and make sure that each outlet is working -- especially those that are giving you trouble. Then go to the other end of each cable run and see if it is working. If not, the problem is in the cable or connectors on that run.

It is possible that the cable company is not giving you enough signal for the amount of splitting that you are doing and log cable runs. If you have a 2-way or 3-way splitter, no problem but if you are splitting too much you might not be getting enough signal to each TV. Sometimes people put splitters after splitters without realizing that splitter loss is cumulative. A 2-way splitter costs you 3.5 dB, a 4-way costs you 7 dB and an 8-way costs you 10.5 dB. When you get that much splitting going on you may need a distribution amplifier to build the signal up to a level that will survive the total splitter loss. Professional grade amplifiers are hard to find; look for one that goes to 1000 MHz and that has a gain of about 12 or 15 dB. Don't use an amplifier unless you are sure you need one; if you have enough signal and put in an amplifier, you will overdrive the amplifier and get a whole lot of intermodulation distortion that will make matters much worse than not having an amplifier at all.

Since you lack a test meter, see if you can find a 16 or 20 dB coaxial pad. Put that in the line to your test TV and see what happens. If you still get a watchable analog signal with the pad in place, you have plenty of level to play with and you don't need an amplifier. Also, if you get an amplifier, make sure that it has a reverse path below 50 MHz if you are using a cable modem or connect the cable modem before the amplifier by using a 10 dB directional coupler and connecting the modem at the tap.

[Roger Halstead]

As a substitution for the cable has already been tried (out the window) and worked. The original cable has bypassed the splitter and didn't work it has to be either the cable or connectors. As the connectors have apparently been changed several times it pretty much narrows it down to the cable across the roof. I assume this runs under the roofing. To me it looks like a case of replacing that original cable no matter how difficult.

Might it be possible to run a new cable via a different route? If not, can the old cable be pulled out? If it can then fasten the new cable securely to the end of the old cable. Use lots of wire pulling soap on the new run of RG-6 and pull it in by pulling the old cable out. Hopefully the old cable isn't stapled in place. If it is that could be one of the problems. BTW, I've never been able to get a good crimp using one of the Radio Shack tools so I've gone to the commercial compression connectors with no problems although the tools are a bit more pricy than the crimp tools.

[regman]

It only takes a roofing nail or a staple and there goes your RG6. You said you had a flat roof, I take it that you mean tar and gravel? You could just lay a cable on top - just make sure it's rated for the UV exposure. Most RG6 is pretty tough stuff - get a commercial grade and white if you are in a hot climate. Home Depot may have the cable.

I have a Radio Shack crimper and it works just fine for me (although the ratcheting type is superior, they cost an arm and a leg) Make sure you use outdoor type F connectors (they'll have a rubber gasket inside). Making your own cables is an art and takes practice. The only calbes I don't make myself are toslink.

To add to what Herbdrake said about placing the splitter under the eaves, also make sure that you have drip loops that route the water away from the splitter (or multiswitches also for that matter). Or any other connection points like F81 couplers or grouding couplers as well.

I have wired my entire 2 story house and a separate detached home theater and have no cable problems whatsoever. I also have 8 hardwired RJ45 CAT 5e cables for my LAN/WAN.

[AntennaVoodoo]

Hurray for HERBDRAKE!

90% of the time, Quad is a totally unnecessary expense and hassle.

With the newest satellite systems, 3 Gig barrels are essential, otherwise you'll have delay when changing channels and intermittent goofy problems.

As for weather protection, I have found most gaskets, seals, Bear Crap, tape, etc. tend to hold moisture in rather than keep it out. I exclusively use Cross Devices STUF dielectric waterproofing filler and on occasion, a swipe of Scotchkote 3M Electrical Coating (boats, waterfront, mountain tops, industrial smog) in conjunction with good drip loops. Never let wires sit in water, for some reason the high frequencies just suck it in. Weigh cable that sat in water vs. always dry - oh yeah, that water ain't helping things.

Good connections take resolve: Watch for stray strands of shield, remnant plastic on the center conductor, wire not fully inserted in fitting, center conductor too short or too long (too long can cause havoc inside the device), corrosion, too tight a bend (will withdraw center conductor), shield pushed down by fitting, etc.

I've found the Digicon connectors, both old and new, to be the best performing.

[LenL]

I wonder why there are no comments on this forum about the RG6 copper core? I have found cable with varying thickness of the copper core. I also suspect the copper core could be made with very pure copper or copper with other materials to save money.

Does the thickness of the copper core make a difference? Is thicker better? Is there any way to tell if it is quality copper?

[eliwhitney]

Hello LenL -

Usually, one may be able to "read' that data which is printed upon the cable periodically.

Yes, as one goes "longer" in the uninterrupted piece from antenna connection to the rear terminal of HDTV, there's the need of considering a heavier gage. Good Quad Coax starts w/ 18 -- usually stops at 14 ga.

At a 50' section w/ premium Digicon Compression connectors, the 18 is fine.
For 100', do get that 14 ga..

There are various amplifiers BUT don't, unless absolutely no choice. Get a better antenna, instead.

There are many, many but www.solidsignal.com is at least one web site for all such supplies -

Here's some more info about these different gauges -

http://www.antennasdirect.com/coaxial_cable.html

More, pls do ask?

eli whitney

[regman]

RG-6 has a larger diameter center conductor than RG59 and it also has more insulation around the center conductor. I have never heard of RG-6 in anything but solid core but I could be wrong about that. What differentiates quality cable is the degree of the shielding which can affect the bandwidth as well.

I have a roll of old HP test coax here that has triple braid. It is so quiet that you can leave 20' of it plugged into a guitar amplifier, unterminated, at full volume and not hear anything at all.

Cheaper cable may have as little as 50% shielding. You really want 100%, especially for RF purposes.

Another issue to be considered is whether you need plenum cable. That would used in high temperature environments, around heating ducts, etc.