Hello--
You WERE expecting...improved vision/clarity by having a surge protector?? Perhaps you are confusing these with a "constant voltage'" unit, ???
In any case, improving your HDTV's picture quality has NIL to do with that surge protector---think of those as a "sophisticated fuse unit" or the like to protect that equipment from INCOMING problems from the 120V-
NOTHING ELSE.
IF you have too many watts in that strip ( above it's rating ), then, it should trip the built-in circuit breaker.
Picture Quality improvement is another search.
Perhaps you could give more about what your problem(s) were to start. everett whitney
AC Surge/Lightning Suppressors
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eliwhitney
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Richard
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Eli is correct in terms of AC conditioning and removing noise.
What you are talking about is signal input loss by using the RF jacks. This means your signal is already low going into the house or is being dragged down by a poorly balanced cable distribution system in the house. Call you cable company to get that checked. Bottom line is you will not be fully protected from lightning unless you use it.
What you are talking about is signal input loss by using the RF jacks. This means your signal is already low going into the house or is being dragged down by a poorly balanced cable distribution system in the house. Call you cable company to get that checked. Bottom line is you will not be fully protected from lightning unless you use it.
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Roger Halstead
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AC surge/lightning suppressors
There is a lot of misunderstanding about lightning protection and surge protectors even in the trades.
Most lightning damage is done, not by direct lightning strikes, but strikes some where in the area resulting in surges or spikes coming in on the telephone or power lines. The magnitude of these surges in tiny compared to a direct or even close strike, but they are small enough that a surge protector can swallow them without usually leaving scorch marks.
The single most important item about lightning protection is grounding and that is a "single point ground" where every thing being used ties to the same ground. That way if there is a strike or nearby hit, all lines, such as electrical, telephone, cable, and TV antenna rise together. There may still be some differences, but they are more likely to be only a few volts instead of thousands. A good ground system like this will let the surge suppressors do their job if they need to. However it does little good to run the AC line and coax through a suppressor and then plug the phone line directly into your receiver.
A good ground is not just a single 8 foot ground rod at the base of the TV antenna mast. For safety it takes a fairly elaborate ground.
My top antennas are at 130 feet. They have been taking an average of 3 *verified* direct hits a year. Those were seen, how many there have actually been I do not know. What I do know is since finishing up the ground system and connecting it as a single point ground I've had no damage with all those direct hits and I do not use surge suppressors. I also have 5 computers hard wired to a Gigabit network with a 130 feet of CAT5e cable that runs within 10 feet of the base of my tower.
Lightning is unpredictable and lightning strikes are not created equal. Proper precautions can minimize the risk, but there is absolutely nothing that will protect a system from one of the so called "super strikes" that are many times more powerful than typical strikes.
http://www.rogerhalstead.com/ham_files/Tower30.htm is a photo of my tower and back yard. the Dish Network small dish is not visible but it's about 15 feet up on the side of the big tower that lines up with the back side of the house. OTA TV antennas are at 90 and 95 feet. It's not a typical TV antenna installation nor is the ground system typical with 33 8' ground rods CadWelded (TM) to over 600 feet of bare #2 copper wire. But it works, or has for the last 5 or 6 years.
Most lightning damage is done, not by direct lightning strikes, but strikes some where in the area resulting in surges or spikes coming in on the telephone or power lines. The magnitude of these surges in tiny compared to a direct or even close strike, but they are small enough that a surge protector can swallow them without usually leaving scorch marks.
The single most important item about lightning protection is grounding and that is a "single point ground" where every thing being used ties to the same ground. That way if there is a strike or nearby hit, all lines, such as electrical, telephone, cable, and TV antenna rise together. There may still be some differences, but they are more likely to be only a few volts instead of thousands. A good ground system like this will let the surge suppressors do their job if they need to. However it does little good to run the AC line and coax through a suppressor and then plug the phone line directly into your receiver.
A good ground is not just a single 8 foot ground rod at the base of the TV antenna mast. For safety it takes a fairly elaborate ground.
My top antennas are at 130 feet. They have been taking an average of 3 *verified* direct hits a year. Those were seen, how many there have actually been I do not know. What I do know is since finishing up the ground system and connecting it as a single point ground I've had no damage with all those direct hits and I do not use surge suppressors. I also have 5 computers hard wired to a Gigabit network with a 130 feet of CAT5e cable that runs within 10 feet of the base of my tower.
Lightning is unpredictable and lightning strikes are not created equal. Proper precautions can minimize the risk, but there is absolutely nothing that will protect a system from one of the so called "super strikes" that are many times more powerful than typical strikes.
http://www.rogerhalstead.com/ham_files/Tower30.htm is a photo of my tower and back yard. the Dish Network small dish is not visible but it's about 15 feet up on the side of the big tower that lines up with the back side of the house. OTA TV antennas are at 90 and 95 feet. It's not a typical TV antenna installation nor is the ground system typical with 33 8' ground rods CadWelded (TM) to over 600 feet of bare #2 copper wire. But it works, or has for the last 5 or 6 years.
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Roger Halstead
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Thing is, a good, well designed ground system that includes the mast/tower, cable, satellite, telephone line, electrical feed, and any other services coming in the home determines how hard the line filtering/suppressors have to work. With a well designed ground *system* the surge suppressors can be much more effective and last longer. Even the best surge suppressor installed in a system without a good and balanced ground may prove ineffective in protecting equipment from a nearby strike. So the mast grounding if done properly is directly related to how well the suppressor can do its job or even if it can do its job.Richard wrote:That has to with installing an antenna and is not directly related to the topic of this thread. Bear in mind that if each topic or article were to cover every little parameter it would quickly become a book.
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crackerman58
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any particular models you might recommend?
Very nice post, I am a newb and found it to be rather enlightening. Do you have any recommendations for lightning and surge protection. I live in Central Florida (the lightning capital of the US I think) and have had some appliances bite the dust from electrical surges. I do not think we have had a direct lightning hit yet (knock on wood). I want to be sure my new investment is protected from low or high surges and direct hits if possible. I use an APC UPS for my desktop, but after reading the article I don't think I am really protected since I have some peripherals plugged in to wall outlets (time to clean up the dust bunnies and rewire). Do you think a UPS would be ok, or should I get a power conditioner also? Do I need a battery back-up?
Any help or suggestions will be greatly appreciated !
Any help or suggestions will be greatly appreciated !
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Richard
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Welcome to HD Library!
It is difficult to recommend specific products. If you follow the article and comments you should be able to find the right product for your application. As an example the article helped you discover that your desktop isn't actually protected and it appears you fully understand why.
The article isn't about power conditioning. Check this link for that kind of discussion...
Waveform 14 AC Power Part 1
viewtopic.php?t=4520
Waveform 15 AC Power Part 2
viewtopic.php?t=4539
A UPS, uninterrupted power supply, is supposed have batteries - that's the whole idea. The size of the battery(s) and how much power the equipment consumes that you have connected to it determines how long it will stay on during an AC power loss. As for protection that is all covered here. Does your UPS have the necessary connections for what is coming in from the outside world? Does it state that it will cover lightning and power surges? What is the amount of insurance coverage provided if it fails? This is no different than figuring out what lightning/surge suppressor you should buy.
Yes, you could buy a lightning/surge suppressor that covers the connection issue and plug your UPS into that strip.
UPS products are typically not recommended for A/V systems because most output a square wave rather than the same sinusoidal AC that comes from your wall. This means it is fine for PC applications but will degrade your audio and video performance in a home theater.
Whole house protection would cover appliances provided they are only using an AC power cord. Exception? LG has a fridge with a TV in it...
It is difficult to recommend specific products. If you follow the article and comments you should be able to find the right product for your application. As an example the article helped you discover that your desktop isn't actually protected and it appears you fully understand why.
The article isn't about power conditioning. Check this link for that kind of discussion...
Waveform 14 AC Power Part 1
viewtopic.php?t=4520
Waveform 15 AC Power Part 2
viewtopic.php?t=4539
A UPS, uninterrupted power supply, is supposed have batteries - that's the whole idea. The size of the battery(s) and how much power the equipment consumes that you have connected to it determines how long it will stay on during an AC power loss. As for protection that is all covered here. Does your UPS have the necessary connections for what is coming in from the outside world? Does it state that it will cover lightning and power surges? What is the amount of insurance coverage provided if it fails? This is no different than figuring out what lightning/surge suppressor you should buy.
Yes, you could buy a lightning/surge suppressor that covers the connection issue and plug your UPS into that strip.
UPS products are typically not recommended for A/V systems because most output a square wave rather than the same sinusoidal AC that comes from your wall. This means it is fine for PC applications but will degrade your audio and video performance in a home theater.
Whole house protection would cover appliances provided they are only using an AC power cord. Exception? LG has a fridge with a TV in it...
Last edited by Richard on Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Roger Halstead
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Lightning suppression.
First, the installation of suppressors is not a simple matter so taking the entire ground system into account is a requirement and appropriate.
Were it me (and it's not), I'd start with a "whole house suppressor" that works on the AC mains and telephone lines at the entrance (contact your local electrical supplier. You may already have one, particularly being in Florida). A good UPS is a plus if it is properly grounded. Other items coming into the UPS and computer(s) need to use the same ground and if powered off another circuit they should be the same length following essentially the same path. Grounds for the satellite dish and OTA antenna should be the standard 8' and in some places the code requires 10' rods which should also be tied directly into the ground rods for the house electrical system. This sometimes results in a ground cable run around the outside of the house.
The protective outlet strips are good if properly grounded. Improperly grounded they can add to the problem.
You mentioned a "line conditioner" which can be good for spike suppression, but they are expensive. A line conditioner is really a UPS that is running all the time. IOW the output is always fed from the battery and much "beefier" than a straight UPS.
Were it me (and it's not), I'd start with a "whole house suppressor" that works on the AC mains and telephone lines at the entrance (contact your local electrical supplier. You may already have one, particularly being in Florida). A good UPS is a plus if it is properly grounded. Other items coming into the UPS and computer(s) need to use the same ground and if powered off another circuit they should be the same length following essentially the same path. Grounds for the satellite dish and OTA antenna should be the standard 8' and in some places the code requires 10' rods which should also be tied directly into the ground rods for the house electrical system. This sometimes results in a ground cable run around the outside of the house.
The protective outlet strips are good if properly grounded. Improperly grounded they can add to the problem.
You mentioned a "line conditioner" which can be good for spike suppression, but they are expensive. A line conditioner is really a UPS that is running all the time. IOW the output is always fed from the battery and much "beefier" than a straight UPS.
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eliwhitney
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Hello crackerman58 -
Unnecessary Power Conditioners, over-hyped HDMIs & the like are what has made the "M" corporation one of the Richest Outfits around!
Unless one literally does generate his / her own electric power - NO - one isn't necessary in this nation!
Just get your APC, Tripp-Lite, Name Brand, UL approved surge protector, keep the carton plus paperwork for the "always included Insurance" , do check the home's grounding as Roger explained & relax!
Here is a typical unit, listed by maker as appropriate for HDTVs - - -
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product. ... id=3910296
Anything really sufficiently close to "fry" your things will also do the same to the surge protector & that's what that "insurance " is for.
eli
Unnecessary Power Conditioners, over-hyped HDMIs & the like are what has made the "M" corporation one of the Richest Outfits around!
Unless one literally does generate his / her own electric power - NO - one isn't necessary in this nation!
Just get your APC, Tripp-Lite, Name Brand, UL approved surge protector, keep the carton plus paperwork for the "always included Insurance" , do check the home's grounding as Roger explained & relax!
Here is a typical unit, listed by maker as appropriate for HDTVs - - -
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product. ... id=3910296
Anything really sufficiently close to "fry" your things will also do the same to the surge protector & that's what that "insurance " is for.
eli
Last edited by eliwhitney on Sun Jul 12, 2009 2:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
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lcaillo
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Surge Suppressor
If it does fry the surge suppressor, it did its job. When MOVs conduct to failure, that failure is almost always a dead short that opens the protection in the SS and/or throws the breaker.
I have serviced hundreds of systems and found that most that are properly protected with system local surge suppressors that have all signal lines protected, and where there are no grounding problems in the system, are usually not affected. I have seen many cases where many appliances, phones, irrigation controllers, and other electronics were fried, but well protected electronics were fine. It does not take an expensive surge protector to do so, just good basic protection on all signal lines and on the a.c. Of course, proper grounding is an essential part of that protection.
I have serviced hundreds of systems and found that most that are properly protected with system local surge suppressors that have all signal lines protected, and where there are no grounding problems in the system, are usually not affected. I have seen many cases where many appliances, phones, irrigation controllers, and other electronics were fried, but well protected electronics were fine. It does not take an expensive surge protector to do so, just good basic protection on all signal lines and on the a.c. Of course, proper grounding is an essential part of that protection.
Leonard
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Roger Halstead
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Surge protection, UPS, power conditioning, and outlet strips.
A couple of things that just don't make sense. UPSs aren't recommended for A/V systems because of the ratty wave form? Who cares? Why would some one care and if they do they don't know how a UPS works. A good UPS does basically two things. It protects equipment from voltage surges both high and low as well as spikes from near by lightning strikes. You don't run your equipment off the UPS itself. During normal operation it only serves as an outlet strip with surge suppressors. The UPS only kicks in to protect the equipment in case of Low or high voltage and spikes. It's supposed to keep things running long enough to shut the equipment down properly, not support the equipment in normal operation. To repeat: In normal operation the good ones only serve as a protected outlet strip. So distortion on the output of a hi-fi set should be a non issue. Now that is the job of line conditioners, but they are normally as much as 10 times or more than the price of a good UPS because they have to protect the equipment AND produce a good sine wave output. So due to price they are not usually considered a normal way of protecting equipment.
Yes the surge suppressors and strips are a good idea IF the house has a good ground system as Icailo stated. They are also the most economical. OTOH research the net for the quality of the insurance they offer. Many have so many outs, the insurance is worthless in most cases.
Yes the surge suppressors and strips are a good idea IF the house has a good ground system as Icailo stated. They are also the most economical. OTOH research the net for the quality of the insurance they offer. Many have so many outs, the insurance is worthless in most cases.