1080P displays

[TIPS List]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Richard,

Regarding your question about 1080p, I am writing an article about the
HDTV industry, one section deals with 1080p and includes SED, SXRD and
all the others, and the findings at CES 2005.

I made the effort to review the newer 70" RPTVs 1080p sets at CES,
most aligned for mid-year, Sony for Jan 05.

I saw the Sony SXRD 70" and as said to Hugh at CES I was not impressed
(and I wanted to buy that unit for me this year), even for $13000, not
anymore.

Sony first listed the set this person is asking for $10K as XBR, now
is a QUALIA for $13000, the same set (after getting into details with
Sony reps they admitted it); consumers would be paying another $3000
for the QUALIA emblem in the front.

The ones that were the best:

The DLP on TI's booth (70" made by them, but is not for sale), and

The D-ILA 70" from JVC (outstanding, for Sep 05, $9K).

Samsung and Sony have a level of quality that I would put after those
two.

SED was demo on a private reception, I do not have time for those if I
have to cover all CES Hi Def properly, I am on the run all the time to
get all the information I need, in fact I made an exception with JVC
on their typical Mandalay Bay set up out of the LVCC.

I cannot paste the material because it was not published yet, my final
is due on Tuesday.

I am including the complete version (of the one for HDTVetc) of the
1080p subject in the CES report for our mag.

People should be made aware that "some" manufacturers that do not
accept 1080p are artificially building 1080p from 1080i by taking the
two separate 540 line/fields, and each scaled to create a single 1080p
frame to make 60 of them in one second so it does not produce flicker
(in other words interpolating on a 540x1920 field another 540x 1920 of
created pixels, to complete a1080x1920 frame), The next filed the same
and so on.

We could be debating all afternoon with their R&D gurus about how
artificial and how many speed artifacts that final image would be,
rather than putting the two 540 fields together in a 1080 frame and
repeating the 1080 frame once to make 60 in a second. They do wonders
to save in the processing bandwidth than a true 1080p deinterlacer
should have to get to a cleaner 1080p.

But no one wants to talk about details of how they did it on their TV,
this is like the magic poison formulas video processing companies
never reveal.

It is also a similar disappointing feeling I had when TI disclosed how
the xHD3 chip actually works (with a chip of 1080x 960 for a 1080x1920
image), although it was a way to get to the same result I actually
wanted a chip with all the 2 million mirrors, they have it, but it is
very expensive for consumer applications yet.

The Optoma 777 for $30K 1280x720 DLP FPTV does that, it takes a
540x1920 field, scale it to a 720x1280, and shoots the next frame
built with the next 540 field on the input. Certainly it is one way
to do it but is not my cup of tea, much less for $30K.

This reminds me at the origins of line doublers for 480i.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra

[TIPS List]

----- HDTV Magazine Tips List -----

Bob, Richard,

Of the 1080p sets I requested information at CES, and I am including
all LCD TV, DLP, LCoS,etc, only the hi-end projectors clearly stated
1080p input, another handful of new 1080p RPTVs/plasmas/etc "seemed"
to been able to receive 1080p. I say seemed because most reps at CES
that call themselves engineers do not have any idea of what they are
responding to. So they respond vaguely, and in my book that is a no,
until a good lab test or published spec is available. None of the
specs provided to me go further than 1080i specifications.

Just as an example:

There are a few that come to mind showing specs that indicated that
capability:

Mitsubishi LCoS integrated RPTV
-------------------------------
82" Alpha82 WL-82913 $21,000, TTM fall 03, 1920x1080 pixel display and
input capability, ATSC/QAM tuner, accept full 1080p signal, upconverts
all inputs to 1080p, 1 DVI, two 1394 in rear (one in front), RS-232
control, 15 pin D-sub VGA for up to 1080p input, 2 component inputs, 1
auto-select HD component input and RGBHV


JVC
----
Professional line FPTV
---------------------
DLA-HX1U $12,000, 1400x768, 16x9 native, 3 chip, TTM Dec 03, accepts
720p/1080i/1080p inputs, DVI/HDCP, manual focus, manual zoom, 1000
ANSI lumens, 800:1 CR, 250-watt NSH lamp, proprietary Digital Image
Scaling Technology D.I.S.T

DLA-QX-1 (QXGA) 2048x1536, 7000 ANSI lumens, CR > 1000:1, 1080i/24p/fp
input capability, 12-bit gamma, 10-bit color processing,
horizontal/vertical lens shift, optional anamorphic lens system,
interchangeable lens system, HD-SDI input, DVI-D dual link option
w/HDCP, for digital cinema screens <30 feet, home theater screens
12-20 feet, telecine transfer labs,, YPbPr, RGBHV VGA, supports
vertical Sync frequencies of 48Hz - 120 Hz (1080p/24/30/60i) and
horizontal 31kHz -135kHz

HD-2K, three D-ILA devices, 1920x1080 advanced technology, 2000:1 CR,
2-piece design, lower cost longer life lamp than Sony SXRD (one
tenth), 13 element projection lens, outboard Faroudja 1080p signal
processor via DVI-D, 13 pounds, TTM Summer 04

----------------------------------------



I also viewed at CES some other DILA projectors (including the DILA
$250K projector), one of the DILAs in the Teranex demo, that accepts
1080p/24fps, and some higher fps, they are digital, so they should be
able to be super fast in between frames, much faster that what we know
hi-end CRT projectors can do, and therefore a 24fps fed as 24 might
not do the flicker we all hated at CRT for decades.

In fact I just talked yesterday to the Teranex product manager for an
article I am writing and he confirmed that the has seen a 24p fps
image on a DILA digital hi-end projector that surprised him how good
and fast it was, the picture did not show any flicker to his eyes, so
we both agreed that since the market is moving out of the CRT 1080p
high-end projectors to products like DILA, SXRD, LCoS, DLP, all
digital chips, the requirements of 1080p might not be any more to
increase a 24fps film source to 60 or 72fps (which would be cleaner as
it is 3 times 24).

This 1080p issue, and who can do well with less frames speed, is
beginning to hit the brains of everyone out there, in fact some
broadcasters were commenting about 1080/60p in about 4 years using
MPEG-4 AVC and Dolby Digital Plus (the ATSC already accepted it for
future option), all within the 6 MHz channel due to the higher
compression (like Hi Def DVD). So source signals will catch up
display devices sooner or later, which means DO NOT get an expensive
1080p display that can only deinterlace 1080i and not receive 1080p
(24, 30 or 60 fps).

In other words, not even the manufacturers of 1080p sets might be
realizing how important might become to include such capability or
such spec (if the capability is there) until the 1080p sources and
competition becomes hotter probably in a year from now.

But I am giving you the heads up now before you invest.

I hope this helped you.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra

[rockhard]

The new round of displays coming for CEDIA this fall will include TI's single chip 1080p DLP , Sony SXRD @ 10k will believe it when I see it , JCD HD-ILA at 1080P and finally the surprise of the show will be the inexpensive 3C LCD 1080P camp ...

Manufacturers that have announced onboard HQV ( TERANEX ) scaling for there PJ products are NEC and RUNCO ...

Toshiba will be showing next gen SED 1080P panels sure to give the RPTV crowd a thrill ...

HD-DVD will be at the show as well as JVC PRO / I/O WMV-HD DIVX HD player -

http://pro.jvc.com/prof/Attributes/pres ... ture_id=08

[avophile]

I saw the Sony SXRD 70" and as said to Hugh at CES I was not impressed
(and I wanted to buy that unit for me this year), even for $13000, not
anymore.

Sony first listed the set this person is asking for $10K as XBR, now
is a QUALIA for $13000, the same set (after getting into details with
Sony reps they admitted it); consumers would be paying another $3000
for the QUALIA emblem in the front.

Could you elaborate on this a little? Isn't the XBR an LCD and the SXRD a LCoS set?

[Richard]

If I recall all this correctly...

Sony did not make a high end LCD, only their LCoS/SXRD, putting it under the Qualia division.

What is being sold now is that same technology as the XBR at a greatly reduced price.

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