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Rodolfo, Richard or whomever,
Both of you mentioned edge enhancement when viewing the US Open. One of you indicated it was
obvious when looking at the lines on the court. I think I can see what you are talking about but
what causes it? And where else does it show up, as I'm not sure I've ever seen it before.
Hugh
Edge Enhancement
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> Both of you mentioned edge enhancement when viewing the US Open. One of
> you indicated it was
> obvious when looking at the lines on the court. I think I can see what
> you are talking about but
> what causes it?
Them. The camera folks or the production truck is typically the source. That
said I tried to track this down about a year ago and gave up. In that case
ESPN said it was not coming from them and trying to take it further with
national or local was fruitless. It is a product of the old NTSC days to
create the perception of a harder edge or better detail. All it really does
it muck up those very attributes.
Commonly it is applied horizontally creating this artifact vertically but
sometimes they do it in the vertical domain as well creating this artifact
horizontally. Star Wars the Phantom Menace provides a great example of
vertical edge enhancement... (jerks).
This can also be an artifact in your display. Set the sharpness using the
appropiate pattern on your calibration DVD. Depending on the display
additional things can be done by an ISF calibrator to further reduce this
while increasing real sharpness.
>And where else does it show up, as I'm not sure I've ever seen it before.
Ah, you have seen it so many times it is ridiculous. Now that it has been
pointed out to you I expect you will see it more often. How do you know?
Real life. In this example anybody who has been to a tennis court KNOWS that
they don't paint fine black lines next to the white court lines.
In my ESPN example anybody who has been to a basketball game KNOWS they
don't paint fine white lines next to the black court lines. Oh ya, and black
atheletes with fine white lines outlining their black legs...
Richard F. Fisher
> Both of you mentioned edge enhancement when viewing the US Open. One of
> you indicated it was
> obvious when looking at the lines on the court. I think I can see what
> you are talking about but
> what causes it?
Them. The camera folks or the production truck is typically the source. That
said I tried to track this down about a year ago and gave up. In that case
ESPN said it was not coming from them and trying to take it further with
national or local was fruitless. It is a product of the old NTSC days to
create the perception of a harder edge or better detail. All it really does
it muck up those very attributes.
Commonly it is applied horizontally creating this artifact vertically but
sometimes they do it in the vertical domain as well creating this artifact
horizontally. Star Wars the Phantom Menace provides a great example of
vertical edge enhancement... (jerks).
This can also be an artifact in your display. Set the sharpness using the
appropiate pattern on your calibration DVD. Depending on the display
additional things can be done by an ISF calibrator to further reduce this
while increasing real sharpness.
>And where else does it show up, as I'm not sure I've ever seen it before.
Ah, you have seen it so many times it is ridiculous. Now that it has been
pointed out to you I expect you will see it more often. How do you know?
Real life. In this example anybody who has been to a tennis court KNOWS that
they don't paint fine black lines next to the white court lines.
In my ESPN example anybody who has been to a basketball game KNOWS they
don't paint fine white lines next to the black court lines. Oh ya, and black
atheletes with fine white lines outlining their black legs...
Richard F. Fisher
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Thanks Richard,
Since my set has been DVE'd on a frequent basis I will assume that is why I hardly notice it. I'm
very familiar with live tennis courts as I play often and I still have to look for the enhancement
to really see it. I've looked before but have not been able to see anything. Perhaps it is more
evident on a tennis court. On close-ups I cannot see it at all. Seems like a foolish thing to do
on purpose as you don't need it with HD.
Hugh
Thanks Richard,
Since my set has been DVE'd on a frequent basis I will assume that is why I hardly notice it. I'm
very familiar with live tennis courts as I play often and I still have to look for the enhancement
to really see it. I've looked before but have not been able to see anything. Perhaps it is more
evident on a tennis court. On close-ups I cannot see it at all. Seems like a foolish thing to do
on purpose as you don't need it with HD.
Hugh
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Sorry to revisit this but I don't remember seeing a reply. What causes
it? It seems it would have to be either the source, the mastering the
equipment or it is added deliberately. Which is it? I started noticing
it a few months back and now it drives me nuts. I've seen it on what I
consider well-mastered discs, such as my Lawrence of Arabia Superbit so
I'm less inclined to think it comes from mastering. Is there a way I can
minimize it?
WM
Sorry to revisit this but I don't remember seeing a reply. What causes
it? It seems it would have to be either the source, the mastering the
equipment or it is added deliberately. Which is it? I started noticing
it a few months back and now it drives me nuts. I've seen it on what I
consider well-mastered discs, such as my Lawrence of Arabia Superbit so
I'm less inclined to think it comes from mastering. Is there a way I can
minimize it?
WM
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Edge Enhancement, which always drives me nuts, can come from an MPEG decode
artifact, or, more likely, from the telecine process, as the telecinists tend
to use relatively small screens and really don't see the image as many of us do
on large screens, where the problem is more obvious. The edge enhancement can
also be driven by the producer of telecinist knowing that most displays
aren't very good, and wanting the image to jump off the screen with perceived high
contrast and sharpness, just as a boosted midrange makes sound jump out of a
speaker. It's a shame, and I have written about how objectionable it is several
times, including my review of the Lawrence of Arabia DVD in Widescreen Review
a while back. Hoe Kane has been trying to get the telecinists to use front
projection on a 6-foot wide screen for their work, so they can more easily see
these artifacts. Because I have DVDs that don't exhibit this problem, I know it
isn't my projection system, which is a Runco 980Ultra fed from a Faroudja
VP400A quadrupler, expertly set up by Jim Doolittle, who is a magician with this
projector.
David J. Weinberg.
Edge Enhancement, which always drives me nuts, can come from an MPEG decode
artifact, or, more likely, from the telecine process, as the telecinists tend
to use relatively small screens and really don't see the image as many of us do
on large screens, where the problem is more obvious. The edge enhancement can
also be driven by the producer of telecinist knowing that most displays
aren't very good, and wanting the image to jump off the screen with perceived high
contrast and sharpness, just as a boosted midrange makes sound jump out of a
speaker. It's a shame, and I have written about how objectionable it is several
times, including my review of the Lawrence of Arabia DVD in Widescreen Review
a while back. Hoe Kane has been trying to get the telecinists to use front
projection on a 6-foot wide screen for their work, so they can more easily see
these artifacts. Because I have DVDs that don't exhibit this problem, I know it
isn't my projection system, which is a Runco 980Ultra fed from a Faroudja
VP400A quadrupler, expertly set up by Jim Doolittle, who is a magician with this
projector.
David J. Weinberg.