ISF Calibration Feedback

[HDTV Forum]

ISF Calibration Feedback

This is from a thread where Mgram and Richard are discussing ISF calibration
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Mgram,

How did your wife receive the ISF calibration? Was she impressed as well?

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Richard,

At first, my wife wasn't sure she saw any difference post calibration. Then, I had her sit a little closer to the set. She immediately noticed that the eyestrain we had both experienced was gone (amazing what happens when the whole picture is in focus, not just the center). The only other thing she noticed was the reds weren't so overpowering.

Mark

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She immediately noticed that the eyestrain we had both experienced was gone (amazing what happens when the whole picture is in focus, not just the center).

Hmm. That was either due to the convergence being out creating a blurry picture or the fact that you are now at D65 color temp. Displays are notorious for being way to blue which also cause veiwer fatigue.

The only other thing she noticed was the reds weren't so overpowering.

LOL

I bet! That was the red push that I corrected when I aligned the color decoder.

Glad to hear she noticed something. If she had been there for the process she also would have had a better appreciation for what changed. But, ignorance is the ultimate test and your wife proves the benefits of an ISF calibration.

Thanks for sharing that!

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The set also had some serious focus issues. the little 'e's were in focus at the center 30-40% of the screen, but they were out of focus everywhere else.

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That was convergence...

[Richard]

ISF Calibration Feedback

I live in St. Louis and Doug Weil did my 3 year old Toshiba 65H80 and my Pioneer Pro 910HD last week over two days. Its been three years since I had my Toshiba calibrated and looks great still. The Pio is about 6 weeks old. Doug did an excellant job on boths sets.

tommeyj

[Richard]

ISF Calibration Feedback

If this thread is inappropriate, sorry. Just wanted to tell the forum members that Mastertech (aka Richard) does a fantastic job of repairing/calibrating RPTV in the comfort of your own home. I'm sure his skills are not limited to RPTV, but since his calibration my HD is clearer, which I thought couldn't happen. My DVDs are richer, sharper and all the more enjoyable. Even my Dish service looks better ... My wife even notices the changes! ... Bravo, Richard!

GFloyd

http://www.georgiahdtv.com/forum/showthread.php?t=295

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ISF Calibration Feedback

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For what it's worth, I was very skeptical about calibration. It is very
expensive, to be sure. I have a $4000 Pioneer elite TV...and for that money
you want it "Deadon." from the factory!

But, it's not.

I sat with Gregg Loewen (LionAV.com) and he walked us through the steps as
he did it. I was actually able to SEE the improvements as he made them.

Brightness and contrast are all well and good. And yeah, you can get a lot
of that with AVIA, etc.

BUT...convergence is HUGE. the USER- settings are nothing. the service menu
is where it's at. And you're not going to get that with a DVD. He fixed the
overscan, got the focus dead on, and made the convergence...um...converge.

Furthermore, he had equipment to put right on the set and get the color and
bright levels dead on- beyond what a human eye can do.

Was there a difference? Heck, yeah. Most noticeably, standard definition was
immensively improved. Even my wife, (who never did find out exactly how much
it cost!), remarked, "That looks better. A lot better."

My father, who has had the same 53" 4:3 XBR TV for years, asked, "Is this
the same Comcast I get? How come this picture is so much clearer?" Note that
before he didn't like the TV because it was the "Wrong shape."

Another improvement- stretch modes were vastly improved after calibration.

DVDs are spectacular. Depth of field is noticably improved. Very filmlike.

Ok, high def wasn't that big an improvement. But, that can probably be
attributed that I use a Samsung SIR-360 OTA STB, and use the DVI connection.
He got the 1080i convergance and overscan nice and aligned. But, on a
Pioneer set, the DVI connection overrides set color controls because it's a
pure digital connection. Results: Structurally, the picture was improved
and you could tell. Colorwise, it was the same.

Oh, and you can't truly mess with 720p or 1080i without some kind of HD
signal generator. So, AVIA can't do that as a 480i or p DVD.


In the end, the Pioneer Elite Pro-630HD was almost a different set. Not just
to a critical eye like myself, but some critical friends, too. and, some not
so critical (wife, dad).

Is it worth the cost, and would I do it again. Well, the cost is expensive.
Frankly, it sucks to pay above and beyond what you already paid. Like I
said, deep down I thought it was bunk, too. and granted, my experience is
solely with my own set. But, Pioneers are usually thought to be the top of
the pack. So, I can imagine that many of the same issues with a Pioneer set
would be present in other brands. CRT projection display tech is
functionally the same.

But, in my opinion, for my case, it was worth it for the amazing improvement
to standard definition alone.

So, would I do it again....yes.

Just 2 cents,
Fred

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Eliab has calibrated mine every year since I got my set. He does an
excellent job. Each year I have made changes to my equipment or updated
software for my Holo3DGraph 2 card which would change the picture. Getting
it recalibrated would bring it back to that excellent picture. Each time i
would aslo have other tweaks performed to improve things, like having the
glare screen reomoved so i would have no reflections during the day, I also
had it lined with Duvetyne to prevent reflections, lens striping etc. Those
extra tweeks can bring the price up so that is why I spread it out over the
years. I'm due for another calibration this year and would like to get it
performed, but I think I might save my money and put it toward the new 1080P
DLP set I plan on purchasing. I've been saving my money and should have
enough by the end of the year. I will definitely have that new set
calibrated after it has settled in.

[donshan]

I want to thank Doug Kinne for taking the trouble to drive over 400 miles roundtrip to calibrate my monitor. He is listed in the ISF Calibrators section of this forum for the states of Oregon and Washington. My area does not have local broadcast HDTV yet, so I have DirecTv. Thus no local calibrators.

I have had this 65in RPTV Toshiba for almost 6 years. I thought it was in fairly good shape until recently when using the DVD " Video Essentials" I was not able to get the black levels set with brightness set up to 100%. Another symptom was lack of shadow detail. On the HDNet test pattern there is a numbered gray scale. On my set I could barely read the 8 with the 9 and 10 boxes coal black. I was thinking "the phosphors on the guns in this set are about worn out by daily use". I was wrong!.

Yes I had a black level problem, but a lot more "not right" also. Doug arrived on time and spent the WHOLE day checking and adjusting just about everything. I do think there was not one service menu or convergence adjustment he made that did not improve this set. Each time we stopped for a picture test it got better.

He started with a complete cleaning of the mirror, lenses, and inside of the cabinet. Then a mechanical and electrical adjustment of focus. There is an service menu convergence internal grid, and I had assumed that a little curvature was "the best that could be done" I was wrong. It just takes someone more compulsive than I am to have the patience to use the Service menu adjustments to straighten each line using a yard stick ( to a fraction of a inch) and go over it and over it and over it and over it until It was a PERFECT white grid. Then he repeated it on the scecond component input DVD settings in additon to the main HDTV setup.

It was the gray scale adjustment that really fixed my original problem ( although cleaning helped). Doug used a light analysis camera and computer software to analyze the intensity and color of light from the monitor. He was able to bring the brighness control back to mid scale AND adjust the Red, Green, Blue guns at each IRE brightness level for linearlity, just like mixing paint colors. This had never been done and it was way off and these settings are beyond the users controls.

I found my loss of brightness was not an expensive monitor about to wear out, but just one needing adjustment. Not only do the HD channels look better, but even the Standard Def. channels on DiirecTV got a sharpness boost.

We watched some HDTV and a DVD and then he was at it again, making one more round of tweaking things I did not see myself, to get things perfect in a couple of spots on the screen.

I think most people are like me before I got my eyeglasses. I didn't know what I was not seeing, until it was corrected. It is the same with calibration. There is a LOT more built into these sets than the manufacturer is willing to deliver out of the box, not to mention aging of the components over time.

Thanks Doug for a job well done, beyond my expectations. ( His fee was quite fair too!)

[Dave3putt]

I just had my Samsung DLP calibrated by the ISF tech in town, Jamie DeJean from Site On Sound in Fargo. He personally owns the same display and teaches others on calibration, so I think he was well qualified. Brought all the equipment, including a laptop computer, which surprised me. He did the HDMI/DVI and both component inputs. Took before and after digital pictures of the settings on the screen, and gave me a paper with all the settings for future reference. He spent 6 hours on it, 95% of the time in the service menu, and charged me $400.

I don't know if I can explain it right, but the 4 main things that were out of adjustment were the color temps, gamma curve something, gray scale, and below black level.

Color temps were all at about 12,000, instead of about 6500. Gamma curve was 1.85 instead of the desired 2.5.

All these things were giving me an eye straining blueish picture.
My impression of the picture now is: Much more natural, rich colors, no eye strain, much better shadow and black detail. The skin tones are right on, as I guess all the colors are. The picture is not really any clearer, but it is more of a pleasure to watch.

Was it worth it? Yes. Mainly because I want to see the images as they were meant to be seen, and now I know I am.

If there is a culprit to blame in this industry, it seems it should be the manufacturers. They could have these displays set up correctly right out of the factory. It's like buying a new $30,000 car, and then having to pay $3000 for a tune-up at the first oil change. That would not make the traveling public very happy.

But we the public are also to blame. We won't buy a TV unless it blasts us in the face with everything overdone. So we're mostly getting what we ask for.

Here's to good viewing,

[astepp]

Finally, my HDTV displays the color and clarity that it should. Thanks Richard, I really appreciate your fine work.

[ar2261]

When I heard about calibration, my first thought was, "why would you need to pay someone to adjust a new television when it already has a great picture. This must be some kind of a scam for someone to make a few bucks off of the unsuspecting." After making inquires from various sources, I heard comments such as " it's unnecessary and it will only make the display look darker". Comments like that only served to re-enforce my negative feelings about the whole process. I then hired a "Calibrator" last February to calibrate my Mits Diamond. When he was done I did notice a major difference compared to what it looked like out of the box, but when I told this person that I thought the set looked better, but I felt the image on the "night setting" was a bit dark and looked a little washed, he replied "that's because your not used to seeing proper color registration and gray scale, this is the way it's supposed to look, and you need to get used to it." So, I learned to live with it, until last week when I noticed some other things about the image that I wasn't happy with. When I called this person and expressed my concerns, he got indignant. It was at this point that I put out an a.p.b. for an ISF calibrator. The person I referenced above had ISF listed on his cards, but at the time he "calibrated" my set he had not yet taken the course and assured me that the ISF training really wouldn't add much to his already vast knowledge. In fact he stated that he had been trained by "Sencor" on their equipment and that was better than what he would learn through ISF anyway. Richard Fisher responded to my request immediately and put me in contact with an ISF calibrator who as it happens, lives five minutes from my home. I contacted him and set up an appointment immediately. This gentlemen came to my home this past Monday. As it turns out, the only thing the last person had done to my Mits was to correct the gray scale. He never touched color because he apparently didn't know how to get to that menu and what he did adjust only ended up making the image worse. Bottom line, it took the ISF calibrator five hours to properly calibrate the set and correct the problems that the other person had created. There is no daytime or night time setting now just one setting that looks incredible at all times. Rich and accurate colors that are not over saturated. I'm finally seeing everything I've been missing since I purchased it and my only regret is that I didn't go with an ISF calibrator in the first place and that I didn't have the process done right after I'd purchased it. I liked what I saw so much that I had my 51" Aspect by Hitachi set calibrated last night and it is amazing how good it looks. It's giving my Mitsubishi Diamond a real run for it's money. Finally if you have a good ISF calibrator, the set will not be adjusted to look dark, and they will take into account your input as you are the one who ultimately has to live with it. I wish that dealers would inform everyone who has an HDTV display about the benefits of this service, because otherwise you are really only getting about half of what you paid for and that is sad. My two cents, but I know on this at least I'm right. One last thing, and this is not always the case, but the ISF person I'm using is quite reasonable as he only charges 295.00 for a full blown calibration. It's probably the best investment I've made after purchasing my home theater gear. Thank you Richard Fisher!

Anthony Rizzuto
Orlando, FL

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Gentlemen,

I know there are a fair number of you out there who have not had their
displays calibrated. A lot of you may wonder why bother, particularly
when you may have the ability to set convergence yourselves and you may
think that is enough. I am here to tell you as someone who was
skeptical of the whole process, it is not enough. I had my 32" Sony crt
calibrated, along with the Mitsubishi Diamond. It is as I think Jason
B. stated, like getting a brand new television, in this case two brand
new televisions. I was not aware that you could even calibrate a
traditional CRT. Both sets now a have a smooth film like quality to
them. The detail is beyond belief. I will give you the specifics at a
later date, but I will tell you that the Sony prior to calibration was
running at 12,000 IRE, it is now a little over 6,000. Here is something
else for those in the group to think about, audio calibration! As you
may surmise from my last statement, I had my surround system calibrated
as well. Setting distances is easy enough, anyone with a tape measurer
can do that, but setting levels is an entirely different animal. It is
not the type of thing you can do by ear. The calibrator placed a
microphone in the listening position to determine current levels and
then set the correct ones. Again, before and after is night and day.
If you have a heavy investment in audio equipment then I can't recommend
this highly enough. It's nice to finally see and hear what I paid for.

Anthony R.
Orlando