Blu-ray Wins: A Bittersweet Celebration

[pmalter0]

Your inability, or unwillingness, to see how my citing of an HD DVD executive making the opposite argument of the HD DVD executive's argument cited by Dale, refutes his citation, is outrageous.

Two contradicting statements from the same camp; it's all marketing Phil or they are just very confused...

That is pretty much my point.

What I don't understand is you have stated that both camps were doing under handed things to win, in essence trying to buy victory. How can you be surprised that a studio was paid off (claimed by the conspirators)? Isn't that just part and parcel of the under handed process of buying victory? It's as if doing so crossed some line of yours that subsidizing product didn't besides other claims. Aren't both forms illegal in your book? You keep wanting to make a stand for justice due to one event when justice was never served prior to that event according to you. I am not saying it is right but it is what it is and while you go championing the underdog and lament higher prices due to the win I sure hope you agree that Toshiba would have no problem at all in running the victory lap instead along with higher prices. In the end your brand of justice will not get served.

As I said in an earlier post, Toshiba probably would not sue because it had engaged in similar shenanigans(I can make the argument that there are legally significant differences, but to fully explain that here would take us too far into legal minutia).
Let's put it this way -- if Toshiba had won by using the exact same tactics as had Sony-- that too would have been unlawful.

Ultimately I guess I am saying you should apply your outrage and abilities to those more deserving...

No, I see this as part of the placid acceptance of lawlessness that is destroying this country.

All that leaves you with is a hypothetical that both formats could have survived side by side in volume and the benefits you espouse. It's not as if you can prove it anymore than those who think a single format now has a clear road to volume and lower prices (longterm). The difference is far more people believe in the single format solution putting your camp in the minority. It's going to take a few years to see who was right.

Under your theory, if we would take all the TV manufacturers, all the computer manufacturers, all the speaker manufacturers, etc. and divide them in half -- so that we would have half as many manufacturers, each manufacturing twice as many goods -- we would have lower prices. Cut them in half again -- and we would have still lower prices. Under your theory ultimately we would have the lowest prices with just one manufacturer. I think I addressed this fallacy before, Comrade Richard ;)

Phil

[Richard]

It may shock you to know I am a libertarian at heart and support free markets.

On the other hand I am not so entrenched in that dogma to not see pragmatic reality.

Many others have explained to you what we mean so to claim that I/we are proposing a one size fits all theory is taking things out of context. We have been very specific in pointing out that we are referring to products like CD and DVD which are unique compared to all the other products you mention. It has far more to do with perception than anything and the perception clearly was, one format, one shiny disc. We want choice in players and brands, PLEASE.

The biggest point you seem to miss is that you are enraged over something an overwhelming majority of the public WANTS, one shiny disc, PLEASE.

[aaronstout]

Phil,

I am also outraged about many of the things you mention, but I don't want to turn this into a political discussion. However, in the case of this market divide ending, I think you are making some very wild comparisons to equate this technology consolidation issue to the Homeland Security Act! What has happened in this country in my lifespan is outrageous indeed! I agree whole heartedly in many of the things you said, but I think you are going overboard on this one issue, and I sincerely feel concern for your well being, if you get this worked up over Blu-ray vs. HD DVD.

Good luck to you, and keep us posted if you do seek litigation against the Blu-ray Disk Association. I would be interested in how it comes out. Much as I am interested to see where Blu-ray winds up in the market and what the perspective of another five years will shed on this story.

AaronS

[hharris4earthlink]

Phil,

I can appreciate the angst, but these comparisons between the mechanisms of government and those of private enterprise ignore the fact that they are basically orthogonal in nature. Constitutional government is about giving power to the masses while business is about marketplace mechanisms. While government can regulate business somewhat, government was never intended to make the marketplace fair. Government can interfere in the case of a fraud, but the selection of the best within competing products is best left to market forces, however imperfect we find them. Better to rage against corruption in government than imperfections in the free market system. But please, not in this forum.

Henry

[pmalter0]

We have been very specific in pointing out that we are referring to products like CD and DVD which are unique compared to all the other products you mention. It has far more to do with perception than anything and the perception clearly was, one format, one shiny disc. We want choice in players and brands, PLEASE.

One can argue that almost every item in commerce is unique from the others. I don't believe that for the purpose of this discussion, i.e. do consumers benefit from one format only, that they are unique. Why do you believe that they are?

The biggest point you seem to miss is that you are enraged over something an overwhelming majority of the public WANTS, one shiny disc, PLEASE.

I also believe that that depends on what question you ask the public. If you ask them if they want to avoid format wars, they would probably say yes. However, if you ask them would they prefer two formats, if it produced lower prices and more selection, I submit that they would probably say yes too.

Phil

[pmalter0]

Phil,

I think you are going overboard on this one issue, and I sincerely feel concern for your well being, if you get this worked up over Blu-ray vs. HD DVD.

Please reread my earlier posts and tell me what specifically do you not understand about my explanation why this is not simply Blu-ray versus HD DVD; and I will try to explain it to you in less passionate terms.

Good luck to you, and keep us posted if you do seek litigation against the Blu-ray Disk Association. I would be interested in how it comes out.

As I've noted in earlier posts, I am semi retired and limit my practice to representing municipalities(long-term clients only) in negotiations with and litigation against the natural gas industry.

Phil

[pmalter0]

Phil,

I can appreciate the angst, but these comparisons between the mechanisms of government and those of private enterprise ignore the fact that they are basically orthogonal in nature. Constitutional government is about giving power to the masses while business is about marketplace mechanisms. While government can regulate business somewhat, government was never intended to make the marketplace fair. Government can interfere in the case of a fraud, but the selection of the best within competing products is best left to market forces, however imperfect we find them. Better to rage against corruption in government than imperfections in the free market system. But please, not in this forum.

Henry

Henry,

Governments throughout the developed world act to make the marketplace fair. Many of our government agencies exist to tame the excesses of the free market in the public interest. The Sherman Antitrust Act was one of our earliest forms of policing the markets to to optimize the operations of our competitive free market system. A major reason why we as a country are falling behind today, is because of the failure of that policing.

I did not start this topic; I joined it in response to the allegation that we should not be upset over what transpired between HD DVD and Blu-ray because that is the way the free markets operate. I responded to correct those misapprehensions.

Phil

[Richard]

However, if you ask them would they prefer two formats, if it produced lower prices and more selection, I submit that they would probably say yes too.

Now Phil, where is your full disclosure?

Ask them if they would prefer two formats, if it produced lower prices and more selection but due to that format war where one seeks to rub out the other and claim victory it could also leave millions of users abandoned if one fails or even more if both fail, I submit that they would say no. Yet there is no submission of theory in this because the historical fact is they already said no before any product ever hit the shelves.

[Dale]

Having spent many years in close observation of standards at SMPTE and elsewhere the greatest threat I have seen to any in our industry is not from having two standards or formats in the market competition but rather three, four, or a dozen more? Not until the market focus is upon one format do the hopefuls lay down their technical arms and table their proposals. The hopefuls, of course, charge anti-competition and monopoly is destroying innovation and those in the lead to market say that there always comes a time when you have to shoot the engineers and get to market with the products you have. This threat of a never-ending proliferation of standards only comes to an end when one standard is settled by either industry agreement (like HDTV) or a combination of that with the acceptance of the consuming market. Then, as we experienced wth the DVD, enough new technology and performance finally accumulate so that a new species of product can be confidently introduced --a breakthrough--and the whole format business begins anew as developers seek to uproot the old and replace the market with their new gadget. While there may be isolated exceptions I have never been in a standards meeting (and I am a life member of the SMPTE) where the goal was to arrive at two or more standards for a product category. In consumer electronics there are so many in the supply chain that the cost of tooling and stocking multiple answers for the same question is inefficient and time will always produce a successor. It may well be an imperfect system and some innovation may be lost or postponed. The future may find a new way, we cannot ignore that possibility, but for now that is how it works.

[hharris4earthlink]

I couldn