HDTV Forum

I receive my HDTV video signal from a DirecTV HR20 HD/DVR, route it through a Pioneer Elite VSX-84 Receiver, and display it on a Pioneer Elite PRO-FHD1 Plasma. The problem is that the standard definition (and 1080i high def) TV signals look so much worse than the 1080p signal from my PS3 Blu Ray player that I do not enjoy standard definition as much anymore and would like to find a way to maximize my standard definition TV picture quality.

Currently, I am using the VSX-84 A/V receiver to upconvert the 480i signals to 1080i, but I am concidering using the DirecTV HR20 to perform the upconversion and sending the video directly to the Pioneer plasma (bypassing the A/V Receiver). Is this the best way to upconvert the signal, or would I be better off using the receiver's? Or, can the PRO-FHD1 upconvert the signal inside the plasma, and if so, is that the best way?

Also, the same question applies to my DVD player: would it be better to send a clean 480p signal to my plasma, upconvert it through the VSX-84 receiver, or purchase an upconverrting DVD player, having that perform the upconversion and send the video signal directly to the plasma (bypass the VSX-84 receiver)? By the way, I am currently using a Sony DVP-S9000ES for standard DVDs.

In a related question, is a standard definition (480p) signal that is upconverted to 1080p that much better than one that is upconverted to 1080i ? I am a believer in true 1080p, as I have seen how incredible it is (even with the Sony PS3), but when the source is only 480p, is there that much improvement in upconverting this signal to 1080p as compared to 1080i?

Thanks,
HiFiGi

Set the HR20 to output only 1080i (tell it your tv only supports 1080i). Your plasma can easily convert 1080i to 1080p for display. For regular DVDs I'd either find an upconverting 1080i/p dvd player or just pass the 480i signal to the TV and let it do the upconversion. I'd guess the receiver wouldn't be the best choice for a video scaler. A separate scaler is also an (expensive) option.

It's generally better to feed the display as close to it's native resolution as possible but it's not always the best - it just depends on which scaler does a better job with that particular scan rate.

Thanks...that is really the point of my question...which components typoically upconvert the best?

If the Pioneer Elite PRO-FHD1 upconverts 480i, 480p, 720p, or 1080i to 1080p, I haven't figure out how to do it...

It does it automatically. Since the TV is a 1080p set all signals are automatically converted to 1080p and displayed that way. So the question becomes which component converts to 1080p the best.

1. HR-20 - Highly unlikely. I would recommend setting it to pass the native signal through.

2. Pioneer Elite VSX-84Txsi - Is suppose to have excellent upconversion capabilities.

3. Pioneer Elite PRO-FHD1 - Probably does a pretty good job too.

My recommendation of the three is probably the Pioneer Elite VSX-84Txsi. But, make sure the HR-20 is passing a native signal.

Now as to whether it makes sense to buy an upconverting DVD player. Normally, upconverting DVD players have an advantage over TVs or AV systems, because they are optimized for DVDs. DVD source comes from a multitude of different formats. The signal is supposed to have flags indicating what kind so that the upconversion can be done well, but unfortunately, DVDs are notorious for implementing bad flags. Therefore, all the good upconverting DVD players analyse the signal and make their own decisions. Whether this would be better then the Pioneer Elite VSX-84Txsi is debatable.

For example, I have a Mitisubish 65732 65" DLP TV. If I let the TV upconvert it looks good. But, my Oppo Digital 970 looks even better. However, my TV is tremendously better then my Moto cable box.

Finally, remember there is no difference in resolution between 1080i and 1080p. The difference is in how many frames per second (30 vs 60). PS3 looks great (for those games that support 1080p) because the frames are being generated on the fly. However, for almost all other content there will be not be a noticeable difference. In particular, for Blu-Ray movies the content is actually at 24 frames per second and upconverted to 60p. An interesting experiment for you would be to output from the PS-3 either 1080p or 1080i to the TV and see if you can see much difference. I suspect you can't.

Good luck.

David

I have a "OPPO DV-981HD Upconverting SD DVD Player" (see very good HDTV mag review at http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/reviews/200 ... 81hd_u.php ) feeding a 42" 1080p monitor. It does an excellent job of upconverting 480p DVD's to 1080p. That was important to me with my 1,100 DVD collection. It allows you to force the output to 1080p so the upconverting will always be done in the player scaler. It also has a nice feature to auto-adjust the output of standard vs widescreen DVD's so the monitor can be left in widescreen mode. It does not have component video out, requiring HDMI instead but that was not a problem for me. It also supports SACD audio CD's if that is your thing. Plays them very nicely. More expensive than other upscaler players but you get what you pay for. I am very pleased with it. In fact, the only thing about it that I don't like is you have to lift the DVD from the bottom to take it out of the tray. There are no cuts on the sides of the tray to pick the DVD up by the edges. Hope this helps.

akirby wrote: A separate scaler is also an (expensive) option.

pzieger wrote: I have a "OPPO DV-981HD Upconverting SD DVD Player" (see very good HDTV mag review at http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/reviews/200 ... 81hd_u.php ) feeding a 42" 1080p monitor. It does an excellent job of upconverting 480p DVD's to 1080p. That was important to me with my 1,100 DVD collection. It allows you to force the output to 1080p so the upconverting will always be done in the player scaler.

Considering the prices of the separate scaler versus the Oppo DV-981, how come the separate scaler has such an outlandish price compared to the DVD player ?

Honestly, I'm not sure that you need an upscaling DVD player if you have a PS3. It will upconvert standard DVD's, too. They will never look as good as a Blu-ray or HD-DVD disc simply because they don't have the detail and resolution. Really, that Sony standard DVD player is the one thing doesn't quite seem to belong with your system. Unless you have standard def content (home burned CD's, DVD+-R's, etc.) that won't play on your PS3, that standard DVD player can be removed from the stack.

I do agree with everyone that both your TV and/or receiver will likely do a better job of upconverting 480i (standard def) than your Direct TV box. All of the set top boxes from cable and satellite companies allegedly do lousy jobs of upconversion. (Dish, this means you, too!) I have a Mitsubishi 57732. It looks awful when I send it standard def content upconverted by my Dish receiver. If I set the signal to 480i then zoom it, it's tolerable. However, it doesn't look as good as high-def (even 720p from Fox, ESPN, Nat. Geo.) and it never will.

I would investigate sending a 480i signal from your set top box through the receiver to have the receiver upconvert the signal to 1080i. Your TV would then de-interlace that 1080i signal to 1080p.

By the way, no one complimented you on your display. Wow! That Pioneer Elite is top notch. Please tell me you are sending rabbit ears or an over the air antenna through your Direct TV set top box rather than sending HD-lite locals through to that set.

HiFiGi,

What I smell is the Pioneer has a problem with anything that is not 1080p going into it and that is due to an internal scaling error. Another reviewer pointed out how most manufacturers were using vertical filtering on 1080i signals which leads to a softer image over 1080p which bypasses your internal scaler. This means if the original patter has a one pixel line left to right the scaler will turn it into 3 lines with the outside ones lower in light output smearing vertical detail.

the Oppo is fantastic if you want peak performance. The PS3 is good but not the clarity of the Oppo. Some of these comparisions will be coming out shortly via a Panasonic Blu-ray player review.

If you want to overcome the 1080i vertical filtering problem you will have to use an external scaler set for 1080p output. I cannot recommend enough at this level of expected performance that you get with an ISF calibrator.

http://www.isfforum.com/

I love this plasma...I used to be an audiophile, now I just want to watch this plasma!

I am using an OTA antenna for local HD, but unfortunately, I can only receive a few channels in my location. This plasma is so good, I tested my sons and wife to see if they could perceive any improvement between 1080i and 1080p, and they did. Then I showed my eldest son how to switch the PS3 between 1080i and 1080p and he performed the same test on me, and I was also able to tell the difference. We each sat about 7 feet from the display and left the room when the settings were changed from 1080i to 1080p or vice versa. We used two different scenes on two Blu Rays ( 4 scenes x 4 people) and our overall score was 11-5-0 (preferred 1080p 11 times, had no preference 5 times, preferred 1080i 0 times)

By the way, the reason I keep the Sony 9000ES in this system is that it is an awesome CD and SACD player that blows away the PS3 for audio discs. They originally sold for $1500 to $2000, but are now available for a few hundred dollars on AudioGon. I highly recommend this CD/SACD/DVD player!

Thanks,
Dave

HD Addict wrote:
Considering the prices of the separate scaler versus the Oppo DV-981, how come the separate scaler has such an outlandish price compared to the DVD player ?

It's only "outlandish" if you think that the DVD Player and a separate scaler are capable of doing the same thing. In reality, the external box has a higher price for a number of reasons. For one thing, separate scalers contain a lot more functionality than upscaling DVD players as well as higher quality electronics. You can't realistically expect a $199 DVD player to have the same video processing performance as a $2000 external video processor. In addition, the separate "scaler" (more correctly called an external "video processor" because scaling is just one of its many, many functions) is usually upgradable via HW, SW and firmware as the technology advances. You are also not limited to what is found in the various components (players, receivers and displays) in terms of video processing. I am extremely satisfied with my DVDO VP50 (and my previous VP30 which I still use in a separate installation upstairs) and I welcome the maximum flexibility that these units allow. A while back I wrote an article about this here: http://www.rfowkes.com/html/component_approach.html if you're interested in my thoughts about this whole topic. I would also refer you to the web sites of some of the major video processor manufacturers (like DVDO and Lumagen) to learn more about the functionality of external video processors.

That said, an external video processor is probably overkill for the majority of viewers. It is still a niche market for the bleeding edge enthusiasts like myself and those with deep pockets. Internal video processing has improved greatly over the past few years and it has reached the point where the units do a credible job for most applications. The confusing thing for most consumers is to (a)understand the whole concept and (b)identify which components' video processing does the best job for their particular installation. In many cases it's really a question of trying out all of the available options to see which configuration looks best. Spec sheets alone can't substitute for actual viewing.