HDTV Forum

Westom,

Are you saying that lightning/surge protectors are ineffective?

Richard wrote:Are you saying that lightning/surge protectors are ineffective?

Obviously I have defined which ones are effective and which ones are not. Provided was the 100 years of knowledge that says why protectors do or do not work.

Why do facilities (that can never have surge damage) spend so much care to upgrade their earthing? Why did this FL emergency response center eliminate surge damage by upgrading earthing (and installing no plug-in protectors)?
http://www.psihq.com/AllCopper.htm

Why does every telco carefully earth protectors - even locate those protectors up to 50 meters distant from electronics? Why does the US Air Force define how surge protection must be installed?
> 15. Surge Protection.
> 15.1. Entering or exiting metallic power, intrusion detection, communication antenna,
> and instrumentation lines must have surge protection sized for lightning surges to
> reduce transient voltages to a harmless level. Install the surge protection as soon
> as practical where the conductor enters the interior of the facility. Devices commonly
> used for this include metal oxide varistor, gas tube arresters, and transzorbs.

Why does Sun Microsystems recommend earthed protectors for the Server Room?
> Section 6.4.7 Lightning Protection:
> Lightning surges cannot be stopped, but they can be diverted. The plans for the
> data center should be thoroughly reviewed to identify any paths for surge entry
> into the data center. Surge arrestors can be designed into the system to help
> mitigate the potential for lightning damage within the data center. These should
> divert the power of the surge by providing a path to ground for the surge energy.

In every case, protection is about earthing surge energy. Any protector that does not divert that energy to earth .... well then where does that energy go? Where does that plug-in protector divert that energy to? Observed is appliance damage because a protector earthed that energy destructively through the adjacent appliance.

For 100 years, a protector was only as effective as its earth ground. Protectors work IF connected to something to absorb that energy. No earth ground means no effective protection. A problem routinely seen with

westom . . .

Yes, you've made your point MANY TIMES - - - just drive into the ground around your entrance electric meter box sufficient 8' copper-clad rods! {preferably 6 feet on centers} & bond them adequately to one another & your home's neutral. That's right from the code.

eli

Westom,

Eli takes all of your text condensing it quite nicely and simplistically. Nobody is denying your claim including the manufacturers of these products which require a ground connection for the product to work and connected products to be protected and possibly insured.

Leonard points out what is actually inside most of the consumer products we deal with and his other points are valid as well.

There are two points here though, AC surge protection and lightning protection. Your comments about products being designed to withstand the former, AC surge, are correct. For most consumers though that is not the concern, it is lightning. And while that damage comes in the form of a surge it is not the same type of surge one gets from the power company that products are inherently designed to withstand. On top of that this surge can come from a variety of sources besides the AC line in any communications application such as PC or broadcast content from the internet, cable or satellite hence the reason a protection product needs to have those connections and why they must be used.

It appears nearly every type of approach has been discussed and you have covered earthing issues with aplomb.

Yet you nonetheless maintain that AC surge/lightning protection products do not work. Nearly 20 years of real world experience from protection manufacturers, businesses that protect IT, consumers protecting their equipment and electronic servicers across the country who deal directly with lightning and power surge damage disagree. Those customers who bought the correct products and used them properly have not had a problem and for those who have, their equipment was covered by insurance. I won

Richard wrote:Yet you nonetheless maintain that AC surge/lightning protection products do not work. Nearly 20 years of real world experience from protection manufacturers, businesses that protect IT, consumers protecting their equipment and electronic servicers across the country who deal directly with lightning and power surge damage disagree. Those customers who bought the correct products and used them properly have not had a problem and for those who have, their equipment was covered by insurance.

Again, that is not what I said. If you understood the technology, you would have grasped what I said. First all surges - AC or lightning - that are destructive are same from an appliance

westom

Rather than risk making you repeat the same information over & over - HOW's about we consider that this specific set of "posts / replies" to be more than adequate & ... MOVE ON ... please? It is painfully clear that you can beat-this-topic to death!

eli

eliwhitney wrote:Rather than risk making you repeat the same information over & over - HOW's about we consider that this specific set of "posts / replies" to be more than adequate

As taught to communication majors, well understood by political pundits, and practiced in advertising. Once someone is told what to believe and believes it, to get him to see opposing reality takes maybe resaying it 13 times.

A minority grasp reality that comes with a long list of facts, numbers, and citations. Unfortunately a clear majority - and Saddam's WMDs were the perfect example - a clear majority will only believe religiously what they were first told without any facts and numbers.

You may grasp what was posted. Nine examples demonstrate why facilities do not use plug-in protectors. And yet still some (probably most) may post, "Are you saying that all lightning/surge protectors are ineffective?", or "that AC surge/lightning protection products do not work", or "I will continue using the plug-in protectors I already have." Do those scary pictures and apartment building fires not say anything? Does it mean anything when even the manufacturer will not claim that protection? Do the lessons of 100 years mean nothing? Posted again because a majority have not yet heard enough reasons to believe. Yes, it is frustrating.

OP noted some facts. For example, if it does not specifically claim protection, then move on. If not grounded, then move on. However the science goes farther. If a protector is effective protection (as others have claimed), then it will define protection from each type of surge in numbers

westom

Obviously .. did not 'work' but worth a try!

eli

eliwhitney wrote:Obviously .. did not 'work' but worth a try!

Of course it did. We moved on to 'why' so many blindly believe these myths associated with plug-in protectors. And why so many do not appreciate simpler and well proven concepts installed whenever damage cannot happen: 'whole house' protection and earthing. Also provided, what any good post must also include: reasons why so many will still deny.

Of course, I had to add the appropriate soundbyte: a protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

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