Another Opinion - The High Cost of Saving Money

[GuyOwen]

Thanks for the tip. I'll have to check it out. I like these fast articles, too. Terry Paullin writes some great, insightful articles for the magazines I read, and I think it's just fantastic that an author will take the time to respond. I can't tell you how many times articles like these (elsewhere) simply ignore any comments posted later.

I've always had a problem with how to evaluate cost vs value. Case in point is off the subject a bit, but I just ordered two bulk rolls of digital media from a vendor that charged me over $200 per roll more than the two bids I received this morning. When I asked why, the answer was "Because of the value we add to the sale." Say what? What value? They've never trained us on anything. They can't add any insight that a guy with 28 years experience in my business doesn't already have. In fact, they're simply a reseller to us -- which won't be getting repeat business. $50 differences -- I can take. $200 differences are a bit much. That's a 50% premium over what the other two vendors quoted.

How do I tell my boss "Well, it's a better value experience buying from them."??

Back on-subject -- I think Terry should not be taken too literally on this. The point is valid -- I just don't know how a consumer decides where the line between fair and naive gets crossed. Naive being that point where you know you're going to pay dearly, later on. Once that happens a low price is no bargain. But, ya' know what? I've been shafted by higher-priced sources, too!

[Larry Kenney]

There are some major problems facing the average TV viewer today when he goes out to buy that new HDTV and sound system. First, and foremost, they're uninformed. They have no idea what they're buying, they get sales people who aren't knowledgeable or sales people who try to sell them unnecessary gear or they shop at a place like Costco where they find a super price on a brand x TV that doesn't have the inputs or quality they want.

They don't read the forums like this one to prepare themselves for their purchase and they go out to buy without any knowledge of what they really need. Wow, it's a 50-inch HDTV that's only three inches think, so it must be the latest and the greatest. They also have no idea how to receive a digital or HD signal.

A friend of mine went shopping for "a large plasma TV" so he could watch the Super Bowl in HD on a big screen. He paid over $4000 for it, got it home, hooked it up and found that the picture he received was terrible. He called me and said his picture was "real blurry". He asked me to come over and see what he was doing wrong, because he didn't have the great picture like he'd seen on my TV.

While he did get a good Panasonic plasma, he got no information from the salesman or anyone else about how to receive HD or digital TV and he was just doing what he'd always done. If you want to watch channel 2, you tune to channel 2. He had hooked up his Comcast cable box and he'd scanned for digital, but ended up watching the analog channels. He had no idea that he had to get an HD box and tune to the higher channels for HD... in the 700 range here in the Bay Area. He also had no idea that he could use an antenna to get beautiful HD pictures over the air.

My friend was able to get the new HD box in time for the Super Bowl, and he also bought an antenna so that he could view the OTA stations not carried by cable. I helped him get it set up and he now has a great picture, both from cable and his new antenna, so he's a happy camper, but I'm sure that there are lots and lots of viewers out there who are just like my friend who have no idea what they're doing, what they're buying or what they need to do to get it to work right.

I wonder how many have purchased new digital TVs and are still watching analog... how many have purchased big widescreen TVs which are not HD capable... how many have no idea that you can get free HD with an antenna? There's a huge uninformed public out there.

Larry
SF

[GuyOwen]

There's a huge uninformed public out there.

Larry
SF

Yes, indeedy! And wait until they DO read these Forums.
Talk about being confused?

They'll be getting told about ISF Calibrations, why glare is not an issue, why glare is the oONLY issue, buying an AVR -- no, wait, a Pre-Pro AND an AVR -- then an outboard Video Processor, new speakers because the HDTV's suck, HDMI cables, installation for $1500 from Best Buy, wall-mounts, throw away the Remote and buy a Universal, get a new chair, Green Push, Black Crush, Orange Julius, flashlighting, judder, and don't even THINK about an HD-DVD player because the guys favoring Blu-Ray will kick your butt...

God forbid they find the Gary Merson articles that tell them their TV really can't deliver all the HD they paid for on every connector!

Sometimes, I think they're better-off being uninformed.

[Larry Kenney]

That's a gem, Guy! ROFL!

Larry
SF

[allargon]

There's nothing wrong with cheaper mass market stuff. Those cheap $50 Chinese-made and branded DVD players have fewer issues with homemade and self-authored DVD's than many of the $300+ mainstream DVD players. Not every one needs the fancy noise reduction and scaling capabilities of Sony and Sharp. They are happy saving $1k or more with a Vizio. Yes, the $5k Lexicon DVD player has a buffer where you don't get a 1 second pause during a layer change with movies. Most people that paid $30 for their DVD players are willing to live with this.

If you believe it , then will leave you to that thought

It's not a thought. I bought about 5 mainstream (Samsung, LG, Panasonic, Philips) upscaling DVD players last year looking for ones that would play the DVD+R's created by my Magnavox recorder. I finally settled on a Philips upscaling recorder.

My friends' no-name $30 Chinese DVD players that only have composite (not even component) out play those discs just fine.

[stevekaden]

To allargon...watching anything on composite in the context of HDTV is simply foolish. YOU maybe happy that you solved your singular issue, but the typical $30 player is barely watchable on composite - in fact probably any player on composite is that bad. Now I am sure there are cases where a $30 player IF it has component outputs - run through a good receiver (read: scaler) would be okay - not great (this is what my mother is watching these days - her care giver snatched the HD-A3 I bought her!).

I would suggest that getting a good deal on a Toshiba, or an upconverting player, no matter what the price is, is going to give a decent picture - but suggesting a $30 player (that will probably fry it's power supply in less than a year) that solves a singular problem is sufficient for the general audience just does not fly.

Finally, if I only had $30 to spend, then that is what I would get - but I would dig through the bins to find one with at least component outputs.

Also, Richard - great statement.

[Dale]

There are some major problems facing the average TV viewer today when he goes out to buy that new HDTV and sound system. First, and foremost, they're uninformed. They have no idea what they're buying, they get sales people who aren't knowledgeable or sales people who try to sell them unnecessary gear or they shop at a place like Costco where they find a super price on a brand x TV that doesn't have the inputs or quality they want.

The statement that follows appeared in a January 31st 2008 edition of the New York Times: "According to a study by the Leichtman Research Group, 50 percent of HDTV owners aren

[rfowkes]

I couldn't agree more, Dale! (re: the "uniformed viewers"). As much as don't like the term "Joe SixPack" it sometimes does describe things to a T (or maybe that should read "a TV"). The misunderstanding about what constitutes High Definition (in any of its various forms) is the real battleground here. And, from an ordinary consumer's standpoint, it's easy to understand why. When you are used to a far inferior picture any improvement is a step up. DVDs are so much better than VHS in so many ways (picture and convenience) that these people, as you said, *think* they are watching High Definition. This is also why I never worried too much about the HD "format wars." My approach was a neutral stance. As a movie buff I bought into both standards and have the capability to watch HD-DVD and Blu-ray throughout my home. I find it interesting that many people are saying the war is now over. What they fail to realize is that the current battle is over, but the real war - that between HD media and SD media - has just begun. The manufacturers have to gear up to convince the general public that HD offers a far better visual and aural experience than their current DVDs. People reading this magazine don't need to be convinced, but I don't classify most of those here as the general public. If the public doesn't buy it then there is a good chance that HD media will become a niche market (like laserdisc was) until there are no SD options.

There's a lot of confusion out there and it's not limited to Joe Sixpack. A lot of the forums have a very poor signal to noise ratio and when people can't separate the wheat from the chaff in very long (and sometimes very confrontational) threads there's a good chance that they will be steered wrong. And there's also a lot of confusion about things in unexpected places. In this very thread it was mentioned that next year we will be going High Definition by someone. While this might have been an unintentional mistake here it just shows how much misinterpretation is out there - which then becomes gospel to those who think that they are tapping reliable sources. As you know, February 2009 is when digital broadcasts take over. I'm constantly amazed (actually, I'm not) at how many people think that in 2009 all SD broadcasts will stop. While HD and digital often go hand in hand a lot of people are being sold on the idea that they have to get an HDTV by February or they can't watch anything.

Yes, you hit the nail on the head with your observation regarding the "Uninformed Viewers."

[terrypaullin]

Even though this response is to FREE2SPEAK, I will address several issues that others who have followed this thread have commented on.

First, let me apologize to this readership for having been

[free2speak]

[quote="terrypaullin"]For the record, the HD-A2 is not an