Consumer Electronics Association Reacts to California Energy Commission TV Energy Use Mandates

[stevekaden]

You guys are just victims of the Exxon, API, libertarian (necon) propaganda. I have investigated every single reference ever given to me that is out there to obfiscate man-made global warming - and EVERY SINGLE ONE is either a paid mouthpiece, a religious zealot, a libertarian (screaming freedom like the were being gutted), or just a hypnotized right winger. There might have been one guy who was a scientist and sincere - but he was like 90 years old and fairly obviously just stuck.

I am serious - NOT ONE scientist in their right mind or without a wad of bribery in their pocket - does not believe in man-made global warming. Because at this point you'd have to be sooooo off, you'd think the earth was flat.

Yes the earth warms and cools - but all that has been separated from the fact that this is a greenhouse situation. All you have to know is that bacteria - the first bacteria that did photosynthesis took a hot carbon loaded atmosphere and spent like millions of years storing the carbon in the ground.

Then in 200 years we have oh so efficiently learned to pump every drop we can back into the atmosphere. And as we populate in a geometric progression - we are doomed to go back to that hot carbon loaded atmosphere.

Simply look at the ebb and flow of ice ages and you will find they DID NOT HAPPEN IN 200 years. And there is just so much other evidence.

Now, I would suggest if that bothers you too much, to think your grandchildren are doomed - then pretend it is all a left wing, tree hugging, Al Gore exploited fairy ring, and go live your lives with Fox. The kings of 'freedom' fraud and lies - and while the liars make money, you can pretend reality is just a dream. If you care, then read some real information, science.

[stevekaden]

portkins: I never alluded to not insulting Beck and the other whores and liars. I just won't insult my co-conversants on this forum. I have no hesitation other than best practice communications to not be over the top disgusted with the selfserving frauds and liars. I have not considered Fox News as anymore than cheap frauds for a long time, and have stated it here. They are not functional equivalent nor morally equivalent to anything but a propaganda machine for a right wing that can't win without lies and fraud.

I mean the shallow proof is three times now they have been busted for using alternate rally photos to lie about the numbers in their 'right wing' tea bagger (aka. ignorant bigots for the most part) festivals and now I hear to cover for that bright light, Sarah.

As for it getting colder for the last 10 years....it has not. Produce the facts and I'll conceed. Your neighborhood may have chilled, but the world has not. And in fact in the last ten years the ocean has heated to the point of killing reefs, and is saturating with carbon dioxide.

Your story about Clinton is so out of context I have no idea what your point it. Unless to think that investing is tax free bonds is going to make him rich. (They tend to pay less). Just because a person is a liberal does not make them stupid. I am not going to trash my television yet (wasting the energy to manufacture - but might make a different choice later) and if the best investment is tax free I might use it. But I am willing to understand why I, we, need to pay our fair share in order to build a demand based, functioning economy. And the importance of attempting to get all citizens functioning in that economy. Study facts and history, you will learn a few things about planets and economies.

[regman]

I like Fox, I also like BBC, NPR and occasionally I even listen and/or watch the left media (MSNBC, etc.). I read a left newspaper every day and although I don't always agree at least I listen to their point of view. I would like to think that I have a balanced view of reality. being an extreme right or left is not going to solve any problems, only exacerbate them. I tend to be a moderate and am really disgusted by the actions of both parties. I also have just as much disgust at the current political process as I do the energy companies. They are all a bunch of self serving scumbags as far as I am concerned. I don't always agree with Beck either but it is refreshing that occasionally someone will come along with a different point of view to be considered. And that is what diversity is all about. Obama is a brilliant propagandist and people are starting to see through it - just look at the poll numbers.

Climate researtch is complex and hampered by lack of good science. They've only been keeping weather records for a few hundred years at best. The geologists paint a different picture of the cyclic nature of the earth. The last I heard it was cow farts that were the main cause of "global warming" -spare me.

And I don't call the left wing commentators "liars or whores" either. But Al Gore is definitely a whore...

Seriously though, when has big governement EVER been a benefit to the public? We're still paying off the WPA debts from the FDR era. But back to the topic, since electric rates are up 17% in ONE rate increase (in Kalifornia) - the MARKET should be the driving force for more energy efficient TV's not yet another left wing infringement on our personal liberties and the pursuit of happiness.

[stevekaden]

The Market just brought us a depression - yes, via politicians who swallowed the free market bs - aka. monopolistic manipulations.

That you watch Fox and thinking Beck has anything really to offer, is reflected in your statement "by lack of good science". In fact the science is extremely good - and in fact it is rather preposterous to think we can do and make all that we can do, but we can't measure ice or the impact of methane (the true greenhouse generator that will do us in). But, as we improve it will get to the point of predicting the sequence of event. We understand with lots of research math and various proofs - the dynamics of the earth from its birth. Core samples and the science of material, gas analysis gives us tremendous insight - far beyond transitory tempature measurements.

That we can make all the things we do (material science, engineering etc.), launch space shuttles and satellites (and they then can look at earth). We can design nano-particle sized machines, and treat tumors at the 10 micon level, .....well it goes on an on. We can do all that, and all of a sudden we are too stupid to figure out world wide global warming? I mean really, let's simplify it - can you see ice melt? Can you see methane that has been buried for maybe millions of years begin to boil out of the permafrost? Can you see the pictures of the Artic ice pack disappearing, and leaving so much more dark water to absorb light?

Yes, cow gas (and people too) = methane = 20 times worse a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide.

I am not sure I have this totally accurate, but a study of those who watch Fox, vs. those who don't has a don't believe vs. do believe in man made global warming of about 60% vs. 30%. So in other words, given Fox has a serious problem with truth and falling over their own hyperbole and propaganda, you are just not getting real information from them.

You will find that most media news while not as bias as Fox, utterly leaves out the realities of what is going on. I get my information from journals, interviews with sources, newspapers (LA & NY), research on the internet(s)...and progressive radio. Big media is all big corporate and while I like the bias of MSNBC, even they are not delivering it all.

To not get too deep, and I do not follow California internals (despite the damage they can do to me), nor the value of .50 calibre weapons, nor do I think my personal liberties are infringed any more than a push to Digital TV (which cost BILLIONS to consumers), or the patriot act - brought by hysteria and paranoia. As for Al Gore being a whore - I would appreciate any references that show his information-presentation was bought, or how he has profiteered.

Oh, I am disgusted with my party as well - but see them as attempting to make progress, and the other party - having nothing to offer at all. I mean, it is utterly deaf, dumb and blind. And hell bent to propogate the big lies. I mean, given their propaganda arm is Faux news...and they are eating their own because the are not reactionary enough, and think Obama can be a Nazi and a Communist, and a Muslim and radical Christian....sheesh.

[dadden]

I looked at the data and don't see warmer so much as I am seeing minimal change over the past 10 years. It just makes better headlines to say that global warming is over. Unfortunately, global warming has just plateaued.

I think it is much more important to understand what is going on than to say Global warming is alive or dead. Unfortunately understanding doesn't seem to make headlines and therefor no one talks about it or even asks for it.

I would like to posit that regardless of how annoyed we may get about regulation I would rather have things out slowly before we have an energy crisis for real. Not the hot flashes that we have been having every now and then over the past few decades.

For example, I HATE many fluorescent fixtures and they are being mandated all over the world. Pretty soon I worry of being able to get incandescent lamps for the lighting fixtures I have and love. Color temperature is everything.

We need to conserve energy and not let the energy companies jack the prices up on us because they don't want to fix the system but are afraid of how much it might cost and if they don't get all of our money now when will they fund their pensions anyway? You'd think that after Enron people would get wise to the scam. But I guess the right money is still going to the right places.

After the past 8 years in particular and 25 years in general I feel that I can tolerate a lot of drama and difficulty for a little while yet.

Brian.

[portkins]

At the bottom of this is a link because the article is too long to cut and paste. A few of you say show the evidence. Well this just out today. Internal memos and E-mails that SHOW temperatures were doctored by scientists to create the illusion of global warming. Or will you say Fox news created it. One thing I will say for Glen Beck. He has given many confidence to not be cowered by your name calling. You say you don't name call but you do it many times in each post. All I ask is keep an open mind. I listen to NPR every day. I don't agree 73% of the time but I listen and learn. I challenge you to watch Glen Beck for 2 nights for the whole hour. Tonight he did a nice show with an author of fiction books. Open your mind. It is enlightening. The country is going under and if you don't see it shame on you. The national debt has doubled in 4 years. That is both parties. Why do you think people that believe others should take responsibility for themselves (and help the most needy) are republicans?

And by the way. Google Gores net worth. 100 million isn't exploiting the global warming scam? And once again I will say. There could be global warming but it is not caused by a .002% change in the percentage of Co2. Look at the historic sunspots. last time they were so low we had the mini ice age in the dark ages. Or did Fox news blast them away.

check out the exposed scam in global warming in the news today. Well not in the extreme left wing media (or even fox)

http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/200 ... rs_to.html

[stevekaden]

dadden - don't be so forlorn over the loss of incandescent, even flourescent is doomed. LED is it. for example look up LEDULTIMATE.COM for info on In Production-being Delivered tube lamps in flourscent format - with a range of colors. And don't need ballast and are unbreakable (the tube).

Surfacemount LED bulbs are about to avalanche upon us - they are even more efficient than the old LEDs, and can be coated to adjust the light output. They are very long lived as well.

Phillips has submitted to a 'contest' a 60watt equivalent (50% of the incandescent market) that has more 50% light output per watt than the best CFL, with no-mercury, and is estimated to last 25,000 hours. Probably an unbreakable polycarbonate. Might be expensive at first, but will pay for itself, and as production scales up.

And they are dimmable (as best I know).

portkins....oh dear.

First, that Gore is rich does not at all imply he is a liar or a whore. His family was rich, and we all know the rich politicians get richer - more opportunities, big speaking fees, book deals, if not insider info (nothing implied to Gore there, just a general cynicism on my part). That he has made money, maybe even on his movie does not imply anything but he is a capitalist (or should I say, human). That he is working for the greater good - that has quite a bit more credibility than obstructionist, rightest posturing and military-industrial exploitation, based on family dysfunction and religious fraud (Bush Jr.). And that doggedly followed with endless hysterical lies by their media lap dogs.

Then there is your link about the British scandle. I am somewhat suspicious. I never would suggest that all scientists on "my side" are perfect - after all there are myriad motivations in any context. Like career paths, funding etc. But, I have to say for what I read, somewhat out of context, they could have been tweaking data to make certain points. Point being, there are variances in surface temperatures - THAT MEAN NOTHING about global warming - yet can confuse a presentation. I mean really, the deniers scream that all the time. I would like to hear the full context first, rather than a gamer web site that has a hard and obvious agenda. And presents information as such.

portkins, you are apparently quite locked in your position, similar to the 28% or so rightists, who will hear, read, believe nothing that does not fit their perspectives. I have best friends who are in that camp - we have no end of argument. But I will be relentless in my pursuit of truth, so yes, almost always another answer. BTW, try this as a first step to the truths: http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/campaigns ... on-secrets

[regman]

I'm totally on board with LED's but I have some reservations. First the so-called energy efficient LED traffic lights fail at an alarming rate. These epiromize reliability - so what's up with that?. I have incandescent traffic light bulbs and they last for decades. Secondly LED high intensity fixtures have been developed for theatrical use, flashlights, automotive use, etc, yet a standard Edison base, 40W equivalent, LED light, is around 50 bucks the last time I looked. You can bet that GE has something to do with the pricing. Since the manfacture of appropriate heat handling (yes LED's do generate some heat) substrates is mature enough to be used for theatrical luminaire use then why the hell isn't it econmically available for the consumer - other then you will never need another replacement bulb (well maybe).

I have dimmers all around my house so CF's aren't an option. Yes, LED's are dimmable with standard SCR type dimmers.

As a sidenote, all but one of the sixpack of CF bulbs I bought died a premature death and the light looks like sh*t...

[portkins]

Steve
Didn't an ex head of Greenpeace, or another group like that come out for Nuke power and they excoriated him for that? I am sure we can agree that is the least harmful source of energy at this time.

I don't remember saying Exxon or any big company is my buddy. We agree there. They exploit anyone they can. If Michael Moore was smarter he would have named his new movie Big Business. He trashes capitalism but capitalism is the best system in the world. Free market.
What has gone wrong is big international business has taken over. They are in bed with politicians to fleece you and me.
GoldmanSax is sucking us dry for the benefit of a few.

LED is the future. I can't wait. It is coming.
One thing that I couldn't believe a while back is what I saw in a top of the line Lexus. They had LED for interior lights and they were pathetic. They weren't the new Cree bulbs but the old style and you could barely see. What a way to cheapen a car.

[regman]

Well I drive a beemer and you given me yet more more reason why I like it... Interior lighting is superb and recessed so you are not blinded - Lexus should have copied the whole thing instead of just part of it ;-)

The quicker they kill compact flourescents the better... Doesn't the mercury content count for SOMETHING? Why doesn't the gov't do something useful and mandate mass production of LED Edison bulbs?!?!?

Oh no -they're worried about the 100 or so 60" plasmas that will be sold in Kalifornia. They'll probably have plasma police at the borders. After all they'll need to refill those 40,000 criminals they're going to release early because they can't get adequate medical in prison. Like we don't have enough problems on the streets now... The SEIU will NEVER tolerate prison job losses so watch out you plasma smugglers!

We have the worst, most dumb ass, state legislature in the universe (except for maybe Greenland - didn't their country go bankrupt). It's our our damn fault because so few people take seriously their right to vote, particularly in the smaller elections.

GET OUT THERE AND VOTE - IN EVERY ELECTION!!!!!!

Greenpeace is a joke - they've gone down the same wacked out far left path with the ACLU and the Sierra Club.