The closing scene of your favorite TV drama ends with a quiet emotional moment between the protagonist and the love interest. Fade to black. Cue the pickup truck ad with the blaring soundtrack. Cue the viewers diving frantically for their remotes, trying to turn down the volume.
Some sets have automatic volume control, which can help [...]
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HDTV Almanac - Be CALM: House Bill Passes Sub-Committee
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alfredpoor
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jognog
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Variable Volume Levels
On the subject of volume levels going up and down depending on a commercial or a show: I notice while we watch several channels, the shows and the commercial varie a lot. Even news broadcast vary their volume. I have my TV, etc going through a A/V receiver. Anything other then the station Tv volume coming through the receiver is steady. There are not up and down volume. The problem is varable from the broadcast station. I have FIOS, in goes through the set top box, then through my receiver. I have even tried the broadcast right from the Tv to the receiver. The same problem...up and down variable volume levels. My Tv does control the steady volume, but not going through my receiver. I can be listening to a show at a comfortable level, as soon as the commercial comes on, the level could be up or down. Another commercial and the volume changes again, back to the show then another level. I usally have my remote near by and either hit mute, or lower the volume when loud. Some stations are more then others. Some stations, when the show comes back on will go up and/or down. Any comments on this? I am currented connected HDMI and optical audio. I have tried 'new' sets of cables..same results. Comments, opionions, suggestions, or just some opened forum remarks are welcome.
Thanks....Jog.
Thanks....Jog.
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Roger Halstead
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Be Calm
I have some doubt about this...Although all commercials could be set to the same volume there are some pretty large variables in station playback equipment, media, and broadcast audio.
Keeping the audio the same from the program if it's live to the commercial is quite a task as the audio in the program is dynamic, varying from a whisper to sounds that nearly lift the speakers kinda like the old TDK add for audio taps IIRC.
Speaking of commercials: WE often set our DVR to record shows long after we've gone to bed. I've noticed in many shows from the sci-fi channel that there is a slight and very annoying break in the signal approximately every 30 seconds, give or take about 5 seconds. On the DVR it's much worse and on the computer the picture goes completely for a fraction of a second. I set the DVR so I could step through it frame by frame. There was a picture in there of a DVD with cover. IOW an add. Now it may be something they are doing, or it may be they have very poor copies of copy protected material, but it's almost like the old subliminal adds which didn't work. At any rate it's really annoying. I wonder if any one else has seen this.
Keeping the audio the same from the program if it's live to the commercial is quite a task as the audio in the program is dynamic, varying from a whisper to sounds that nearly lift the speakers kinda like the old TDK add for audio taps IIRC.
Speaking of commercials: WE often set our DVR to record shows long after we've gone to bed. I've noticed in many shows from the sci-fi channel that there is a slight and very annoying break in the signal approximately every 30 seconds, give or take about 5 seconds. On the DVR it's much worse and on the computer the picture goes completely for a fraction of a second. I set the DVR so I could step through it frame by frame. There was a picture in there of a DVD with cover. IOW an add. Now it may be something they are doing, or it may be they have very poor copies of copy protected material, but it's almost like the old subliminal adds which didn't work. At any rate it's really annoying. I wonder if any one else has seen this.
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alfredpoor
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Interesting!
That's a curious observation about the SciFi channel, Roger. Could it be a subtle way to combat DVRs? I think it would be a short-sighted strategy, but an interesting one.
On a similar vein, I like the "Start Here" screen that ABC puts after its network spots. Sometimes it comes right before the start of the next segment of the current show, but sometimes it is sandwiched between ads. Maybe an experiment to see if people stop the skipping when they see it, so they are more likely to see the next ad?
As for the volume on programming and ads, I agree that it's complicated, but I believe it actually could be handled at the station. Just run the sound for everything through a compressor, bringing up the lowest dynamic and attenuating the highest levels so that they all fall within an "acceptable" range. I still believe that it's best handled in the TV itself, however, so the viewer has the option of controlling the levels on his or her own.
Alfred
On a similar vein, I like the "Start Here" screen that ABC puts after its network spots. Sometimes it comes right before the start of the next segment of the current show, but sometimes it is sandwiched between ads. Maybe an experiment to see if people stop the skipping when they see it, so they are more likely to see the next ad?
As for the volume on programming and ads, I agree that it's complicated, but I believe it actually could be handled at the station. Just run the sound for everything through a compressor, bringing up the lowest dynamic and attenuating the highest levels so that they all fall within an "acceptable" range. I still believe that it's best handled in the TV itself, however, so the viewer has the option of controlling the levels on his or her own.
Alfred
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algopher
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Well, if you want to practice your "quick draw - McGraw" technique then try it on CBS's CSI Miami on an over the air signal. If you have any "young-uns", sick family members good luck. It isn't just the commercials either. I called the station, and sent them emails and I don't think it did any good at all. It is about the same as some of the lousy attempts at spelling on some of the graphics local stations put on. We never seen that years ago, but is so prevalent now. Must be that we have to insure that everyone has the "warm and fuzzy" feeling. As for the volume variations, it is a matter of giving the folks with the big 5.1, and 7.1 systems something to "play" with.
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alfredpoor
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Two separate issues
There are two points of control.
The advertisement producers set the levels for their segments, and the program producers set them for theirs. The point of an ad is to get your attention, so it's natural that the ad producer will choose to set it at or near the top of the acceptable level. For dramatic reasons, it's not unusual for a program segment to end with the audio equivalent of "fade to black". So you end with a major collision at the transition between the program and the ads.
The individual station controls how loud the audio signal is in general. Here in the Philadelphia market, the CBS affiliate cranks their volume up compared with all the other stations in the market. I have no explanation for why they do this, but it is very noticeable. The fact that algopher cites CSI as being a problem there, I suspect that there's something in the CBS network or its affiliates that is behind this louder volume.
Alfred
The advertisement producers set the levels for their segments, and the program producers set them for theirs. The point of an ad is to get your attention, so it's natural that the ad producer will choose to set it at or near the top of the acceptable level. For dramatic reasons, it's not unusual for a program segment to end with the audio equivalent of "fade to black". So you end with a major collision at the transition between the program and the ads.
The individual station controls how loud the audio signal is in general. Here in the Philadelphia market, the CBS affiliate cranks their volume up compared with all the other stations in the market. I have no explanation for why they do this, but it is very noticeable. The fact that algopher cites CSI as being a problem there, I suspect that there's something in the CBS network or its affiliates that is behind this louder volume.
Alfred
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jognog
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Volume LEvels and Drop Outs on DVR
This all very interesting comments. I am glad to see that everyone has the problem with variable volume levels. I have 9 neighbors that have the same issue. It was terrible on Comcast and worst or Dish and Directv. Fios seems to be better with now big issues of drop outs and delay on audio and video. Prior ventrues never did solve the problems after over a yeat of some major trouble shooting with even trucks parks at distribution cable points and even in fromnt of my house to monitor.
Once I switched to Fios. everything was 99% improvement. I have been into Fios for about 6 months and had no problems. Recently though, I had some clitches in the system. For several days I lost the pictures for a few seconds that went black on the screen. It was happening on all my HD channels. That was fixed by resetting the DVR box. Everything was fine for a few days. Then I started to loose audio with words being chopped off or clipped. This went on for a while. Most uncommon with Fios. I checked with my neighbors and only one out of the nine had the same problem. We both reset our DVD. Seems like the problem in the box. I am monitoring the DVD audio and video now. If I have that problem and it may be time to get a new set top box from Verion. After I reset the box, things went well though. Watching.
On the commnet about steady audio; that is still going on. I agree the the stations are trying to get your attention, but the volume levels are some times way up there or way to low. THe interesting thing is on the volume level high, I can reduce the DB levels with my remote on Mute. The level is reduced to a lower level and not completely muted. THen I just press it again to get the volume back normally when the 'show comes back on. I thought about get a new AV received and looking to see if they have one that will control the volume level to a steady level. That may be my next step.
I don't know why on the broadcast stations the volume level is so variable. When listening to the music from the Fios, XM, or any FM, the sound is constant. The broadcast stations need to get their audio to gether and level out the issues so we don't go deaf listening to those loud levels that pop in and out intermittently.
Jog
Once I switched to Fios. everything was 99% improvement. I have been into Fios for about 6 months and had no problems. Recently though, I had some clitches in the system. For several days I lost the pictures for a few seconds that went black on the screen. It was happening on all my HD channels. That was fixed by resetting the DVR box. Everything was fine for a few days. Then I started to loose audio with words being chopped off or clipped. This went on for a while. Most uncommon with Fios. I checked with my neighbors and only one out of the nine had the same problem. We both reset our DVD. Seems like the problem in the box. I am monitoring the DVD audio and video now. If I have that problem and it may be time to get a new set top box from Verion. After I reset the box, things went well though. Watching.
On the commnet about steady audio; that is still going on. I agree the the stations are trying to get your attention, but the volume levels are some times way up there or way to low. THe interesting thing is on the volume level high, I can reduce the DB levels with my remote on Mute. The level is reduced to a lower level and not completely muted. THen I just press it again to get the volume back normally when the 'show comes back on. I thought about get a new AV received and looking to see if they have one that will control the volume level to a steady level. That may be my next step.
I don't know why on the broadcast stations the volume level is so variable. When listening to the music from the Fios, XM, or any FM, the sound is constant. The broadcast stations need to get their audio to gether and level out the issues so we don't go deaf listening to those loud levels that pop in and out intermittently.
Jog
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dadden
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The problem is Compression
Programs have relatively high dynamic range audio and there fore the loud bits are loud and the quiet bits are, you guessed it, quiet.
Commercials on the other hand are usually heavily compressed. This means that the loud bits are as loud as they are allowed to be. (no pun intended) The quiet bits are raised in level to be just slightly less loud than the loudest bits.
This means that although there is no difference in maximum levels (as required by law, TV stations can loose their licenses for doing so) the commercials sound much much louder.
For an example,... when you watch the program you set your volume level at whatever nominal level you normally like to watch, depending on which channel you are viewing. This level is based on the average level of the program. Even if there are very loud sound effects and yelling voices you will be comfortable because the differences are proportionate and appropriate for what is happening on screen. When the commercial comes on the producers compress the sound signal so that it the nominal (average) level is close to the maximum level that the sound can be at. This means that you are now listening to what should be nominal sound levels at full volume. In other words, the sound is extremely loud.
And yes, it is done to get your attention. There are people who think that the "loudest" sound source will be listened to. Back in the days of AM broadcast this was actually true but now it is more of a way to convince program managers and promotional spot producers that they are "doing something aggressive" in marketing. The only thing it does for most of us is make us reach for the volume control or mute button. If these people were smart they would make the audio more pleasant to listen to and maybe even just a bit quieter so that you wouldn't mute or turn down the volume and might accidently listen to the commercials. I'm not holding my breath. I've worked around radio for over 20 years and still haven't seen much positive change.
Please note that I am not saying that all compression is bad. A little compression can be wonderful in that it makes it easier to listen to programing because you don't have all those changes in extreme quietness and loudness. This is one of the reasons that people at live music events that aren't heavily reinforced sometimes have trouble listening and hearing the show. They have become so used to Television and Radio programming that they don't know how to listen. The other thing that happens, sadly enough, is that they may not realise that they don't hear as well as they once did. This is also the reason that people can't seem to shut up at public events where you have to listen actively or you can't hear. The world isn't a TV or a Radio. I am a professional sound engineer and have put up with people over the years complaining that they can't hear what's going on when they won't shut up. When the peak SPL is between 90 and 95 A weighted at the mix position which is near the back of the house (venue) then the problem shouldn't be not being able to hear but rather not listening. Sorry, got a bit off the main topic there, but it is a pet peeve of mine.
If your TV/Receiver has a nighttime or compress or quiet viewing mode this will help but it will also destroy any dynamic range in the audio programming. In my book this dynamic range is what makes programs sound real and vibrant and helps reduce listener fatigue when watching over a longer period of time.
Good Luck,
Brian.
Commercials on the other hand are usually heavily compressed. This means that the loud bits are as loud as they are allowed to be. (no pun intended) The quiet bits are raised in level to be just slightly less loud than the loudest bits.
This means that although there is no difference in maximum levels (as required by law, TV stations can loose their licenses for doing so) the commercials sound much much louder.
For an example,... when you watch the program you set your volume level at whatever nominal level you normally like to watch, depending on which channel you are viewing. This level is based on the average level of the program. Even if there are very loud sound effects and yelling voices you will be comfortable because the differences are proportionate and appropriate for what is happening on screen. When the commercial comes on the producers compress the sound signal so that it the nominal (average) level is close to the maximum level that the sound can be at. This means that you are now listening to what should be nominal sound levels at full volume. In other words, the sound is extremely loud.
And yes, it is done to get your attention. There are people who think that the "loudest" sound source will be listened to. Back in the days of AM broadcast this was actually true but now it is more of a way to convince program managers and promotional spot producers that they are "doing something aggressive" in marketing. The only thing it does for most of us is make us reach for the volume control or mute button. If these people were smart they would make the audio more pleasant to listen to and maybe even just a bit quieter so that you wouldn't mute or turn down the volume and might accidently listen to the commercials. I'm not holding my breath. I've worked around radio for over 20 years and still haven't seen much positive change.
Please note that I am not saying that all compression is bad. A little compression can be wonderful in that it makes it easier to listen to programing because you don't have all those changes in extreme quietness and loudness. This is one of the reasons that people at live music events that aren't heavily reinforced sometimes have trouble listening and hearing the show. They have become so used to Television and Radio programming that they don't know how to listen. The other thing that happens, sadly enough, is that they may not realise that they don't hear as well as they once did. This is also the reason that people can't seem to shut up at public events where you have to listen actively or you can't hear. The world isn't a TV or a Radio. I am a professional sound engineer and have put up with people over the years complaining that they can't hear what's going on when they won't shut up. When the peak SPL is between 90 and 95 A weighted at the mix position which is near the back of the house (venue) then the problem shouldn't be not being able to hear but rather not listening. Sorry, got a bit off the main topic there, but it is a pet peeve of mine.
If your TV/Receiver has a nighttime or compress or quiet viewing mode this will help but it will also destroy any dynamic range in the audio programming. In my book this dynamic range is what makes programs sound real and vibrant and helps reduce listener fatigue when watching over a longer period of time.
Good Luck,
Brian.