Another Opinion - The Case for Outboard Video Processing

[terrypaullin]

If you haven't already, marketing types everywhere are saying you probably will - buy a large screen TV in 2008 that is. For our purpose here, let's define large as anything north of a 50" diagonal. With the resurgence of a couple good RPTVs, precipitous price drops in both LCD and Plasma large panels and really good front projector/screen combos in the under $5,000 range, many more of you WILL opt for Big Screen nirvana this year. But will all truly be well in Megapixelville? If all you do is replace the monitor, maybe not so much.

Here's the thing. From the beginning...

[url=http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/columns/2008/02/another_opinion_-_the_case_for_outboard_video_processing.php]Read the Column[/url]

[videograbber]

Hilarious. Absolutely hilarious.

Advocating a $3,000 vidProc for a $799 Costco panel.

- Tim

[terrypaullin]

Tim, clearly you did not read what I wrote, so anything after this is likely to be in vain, but for the record................

The $799 Costco panel was cited as an extreme example of something that was not likely to have acceptable video processing built into the front end....

I don't recommend buying ANY a/v products from the "C" store. They don't buy anything they can't get for near "blowout" pricing. There is a reason a manufacturer is willing to part with large lots for next to zero margin. Usually they are one to three generations old or have a performance/usability glitch that keeps them from being good runners through normal channels.

Not all processors are $3,000. Many good ones can be had for much nearer $1,200 or so.

[allchemie]

Actually, Costco is selling current Panasonic 1080p plasma sets in 50" and 58". These are in the 700U series. The advantage is the 90 day return policy and there is no company that is easier to deal with. Even with tax and delivery their prices are excellent.

Sadly, they don't sell any good receivers and certainly don't sell any Outboard Video Processing units.

Greg

[rfowkes]

Terry,

As always, a well written, technically accurate and interesting article. As you probably already know, I'm a big proponent of an external video processor as part of any serious home theater setup for all the reasons you cited and more. And I'm not talking about six-figure HTs either but even much more modest ones that generally go beyond the "Costco Crowd" (no disrespect meant in that statement, BTW.) An article that I wrote some time ago "A New Approach to Components in a Digital Audio/Video World" (circa 2006) that Shane posted for me in the magazine outlines my HT strategy and, as you can see, uses the concept of a VP "hub" as a good approach which could actually save a bit of money over time if we are talking about mid-line and above components. I am in agreement with your hypothesis regarding the many benefits of video processing and all that it offers.

That said, in the (almost) two years since I wrote that original piece I have modified my approach slightly regarding whether or not the VP should be a separate box or, perhaps, part of the pre/pro or AVR. Recent price reductions in quality VP circuitry as well as an increase in performance characteristics has made a lot of the video processing options available in some of the newer AVRs and pre/pros quite competitive with separate VP units. For example, the new top of the line Denon pre/pro contains VP quite similar to my current DVDO VP50. As HDMI begins to proliferate in a lot of equipment there are some new issues that arise, especially in a "multibox" approach. Coincidently, Shane will shortly be posting another article of mine on the challenges of HDMI connectivity where I go into detail on this subject, but the short version is that as you add more and more HDMI devices to the two-way chain you increase the possibility of handshaking issues and, at the very least, greater lock-in times. By consolidating boxes a bit you decrease the chance of this happenning. In my discussions with Jano Banks (co-inventor of HDMI) he verified this issue.

None of this really changes the overall position that both you and I take that there's no way that even a $1500 display is going to offer the same quality of video processing as a separate $1500 VP box. Those people purchasing $800 displays might not see the point of all this and laugh at it, but for the HT crowd (and not just those with deep pockets) we definitely see the point (pun definitely intended).

Well said.

[terrypaullin]

Actually, Costco is selling current Panasonic 1080p plasma sets in 50" and 58". These are in the 700U series. The advantage is the 90 day return policy and there is no company that is easier to deal with. Even with tax and delivery their prices are excellent.

Sadly, they don't sell any good receivers and certainly don't sell any Outboard Video Processing units.

Greg

Greg,
Actually, the current series for both the 50 and 58 are PZ750U (I'm a dealer), but your point is well taken. I believe this to be the rare case of "C" handling decent products. The 50" Pany is so-so, but the 58" is a good imager (and a good deal).

[akirby]

Also note that Costco sells a lot of higher end and better quality items through costco.com . e.g. they have the current Mits 65" Diamond DLP (WD-65833) for $2599 which is cheaper than any of the brick and mortar stores right now and that also includes a free 2 yr warranty through Costco and a 90 day no questions asked return policy (you can return the TV to any costco store).

By contrast the stores only carry the bottom of the line model made especially for Costco for $1699 (including the stand).

[terrypaullin]

Terry,

As always, a well written, technically accurate and interesting article...

Thanks for your comments. It's refreshing to find a similar view out there! I do find a sentiment on this site that is heavily skewed to buying the cheapest thing available. I am a man of modest means like most who post here, but there is some point where you begin to waste whatever you are prepared to spend. My next column will be entitled "The High Cost of Saving Money"..............

I look forward to reading of your HDMI findings...................

[GuyOwen]

A nice article -- and timely. I have enjoyed your "...Opinion..." articles in Widescreen Review. I just posted a question at the AVSForum asking if anyone knew of a list that tells us exactly which processors are included in our $2,000 to $3,000 flat panel displays. No one has come up with a real answer, yet -- and the point of my question was "Then why are we rushing out to buy expensive AVRs to bypass those Processors we already purchased?" There seem to be no real facts anywhere that prove these Processors work less well than, say, the HQV Reon in the Onkyo TX-SR875. In fact, in the latest issue of Widescreen Review the detailed review of this Onkyo said it's initial firmware was no improvement over the TV's processor, but an updated firmware helped a lot. Whew! $1400 or so -- and I'm being told the Video side of that fancy AVR isn't really all that great.

One would assume the Onkyo's will give better results right off the bat. But on every set it's hooked up to? And the Lumagen, etc. that you mention -- how can I know ahead of time that the difference will be noticeable -- no matter which set I buy? I'm just asking because I find it surprising that we spend so much on a High Def TV -- then are told we should rush out and buy something to bypass or replace most every feature and component included in that set.

It all seems a little crazy, to me. Replace the Processor. Replace the Deinterlacer. Replace the HDMI Cables. Replace the Speakers. Replace the Remote. Replace the Power Cord. That Bezel sucks, too -- replace it!

Believe me, I take your advice here seriously and will be looking into these. But is there any evidence of improved quality-of-viewing after any are connected to specific sets?

[terrypaullin]

Guy, I truly empathize with you dilemma. We would all like some kind of reliable indicator that we will be happy with the result when spending hard earned money. Unfortunately we usually can't get such a guarantee. We do our homework, we take our chances......
The point I was trying to make in the column is that there are vastly varying degrees of video processing built into displays now-a-days. The costlier the display the higher the probability that they spent some of that premium on the "front-end chipset". So is your Onkyo driving a Visio or a Pioneer Kuro? Don't know specifically about the Onkyo, but if your receiver (or DVD player) has the ability to turn off some of the processing features (de-interlacing for example) it's easy to do an A/B test to see who's doing the best job. All I can tell you from many, many installs, I've never seen a case where the outboard processor didn't make things look better - in most cases a LOT better.