Xbox 360 Elite - no HD audio support via HDMI?!?!

[DNewZealand]

With the upcoming release of the XBox 360 Elite HD Drive using only HDMI 1.2 I have been reading in reviews there will be no Dolby Digital Plus or Dolby TrueHD....HELP????...In my country there is currently no HD DVD players available except the Xbox360/HD drive ....

I need some help on this...... is there is any truth in this...I am hoping not as I was expecting with the release of HDMI with the XboxElite360 to have the High Def. Audio PCM available to pass onto my Pioneer VSX-AX4ASi-G Receiver,Panasonic PT-AX100E system.....

It just does not make sense that a product that launches 6 months later than the PS3 (Yes I have one for Blu-ray) has an older HDMI standard...May be a firmware upgrade/xbox live update will slove the High Def HDMI 1.2 problem ..


Is HDMI 1.2 able to pass the New High Def Codex as a PCM over the link along with the VC1 video ???? or is there not enough bandwidth>>????

Comments please[/b]

[stevekaden]

I have a tech-savy friend who bought the Elite and found the same issues, to his disappointment. He says he has heard there is a firmware update due on May 15th (I think that's the date). I do not remember the details, but it seemed to make him happy and he is very audio particular. I'd suggest doing some web surfing and you will probably find the same notice he found. Or, he called MS.

[Richard]

The problem can't be HDMI 1.2...

http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/articles/20 ... nnel_a.php

In September 2005, Dolby announced that A/V receivers capable of processing PCM over their HDMI 1.1 inputs should also be able to have sufficient bandwidth to accept the HD video and the PCM multi-channel audio decoded by the Hi-def DVD player. Any HDMI suited receiver should be capable to input the PCM and reproduce the higher bandwidth of the soundtracks.

According to Dolby, there should be no need to replace an HDMI 1.1 suited receiver to get the benefit of the higher-bit audio formats.

Upgrading to an A/V receiver suited with HDMI 1.1 would bring the full benefit of the lossless audio formats transporting the channels digitally as PCM

... and I am disappointed as well since I was seriuosly thinking about trading mine in for the Elite. I already bought one product based on promises that have yet to materialize, PS3 supporting 1080p24 and upconverting SD DVD, so I think I will wait this one out until Microsoft actually enables it.

[rfowkes]

According to what I've heard from people at Microsoft, this is not an HDMI 1.2 issue but a decision by Microsoft not to offer any of the HD audio codecs either via HDMI or analog 5.1 outputs (which isn't on either the old or the new 360). They've even stated that even though the Elite has HDMI 1.2 (which would be otherwise fine to pass UNDECODED HD audio codecs to an AVR or pre-pro with decoding capability) there are no plans with this model to pass through any HD audio codecs in any form. That feature will have to wait until the next generation XBox 360 since the "Elite" does not contain the chips necessary to either decode or pass through HD Audio.

This was a conscious decision on Microsoft's part, who focused on offering HDMI for 1080p output for those wanting it with this rather minor upgrade to the original 360. I'm assuming that the next 360 (post-"Elite") will offer HD Audio capabilities in some fashion or it cannot be considered a "serious" HD-DVD player (with the HD-DVD add-on, of course.) Because of all of this I decided against getting an Elite and simply added a 120g HD to my existing 360 (swapping out the 20 gigger, which went very smoothly.)

In my opinion, the HD-DVD player for the 360 now becomes a very minimal HD solution since to me HD Audio is a significant part of the HD-DVD experience. For those who don't care about uncompressed and/or lossless audio, then the HD-DVD add-on is still viable.

[Richard]

Well that settles that... no Elite in this house!

Thanks

[Rodolfo]

Robert,

You are on the right track, but there are more reasons and technical limitations that make HD DVD not been able to pass through, any HD DVD player, even the future ones.

Althouh I never participate in forums I felt complelled to get into this informal exchange because there are many things that are not fully disclosed to the public, by anyone, even the major magazines, and the press is the worst, when they have it right. In other words, the approach is, "keep it secret until the **** hits the fan".

This exchange is very coincidental with an article I have prepared to open this subject, which summarizes work I have been doing with two Dolby executives, one the very same Craig Eggers. And the article is ready, I will pass it to Shane this afternoon, it will clarify most of these questions if not all.

Keep an eye on the main site.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra

[rfowkes]

I wonder how Shane's News Bulletin ("Xbox 360 HD DVD Add-On to Get Upgrade Tomorrow") will affect all this? I understood that the 360 can't offer PCM via HDMI in the Elite so I assume that these "1.5Mbps" audio streams must be decoded by the AVR or pre-pro, right?

And does it mean that the un-decoded audio stream will be available at the HDMI output or just via Optical (or perhaps both?) Not having an Elite 360 I can't check the HDMI sound, but maybe I'll be able to check the Toslink audio after I update the 360 SW on 5/15.

As usual, AVSForum is both a source of information and misinformation as too many cooks spoil the broth. There is some expert opinion there, but it gets peppered with a lot of opinion (some not very learned) and becomes a "separating the wheat from the chaff" issue.

Any thoughts, Rodolfo?

[Rodolfo]

Robert,

The answer to your questions is in the upcoming article, and will not make many people happy.

The short answer is, pass-thru streaming of soundtrack without advanced audio/interactive features within that signal in HD DVD might never happen, regardless of the HDMI version the installed chip is.

The DVD Forum must decide if the pass-thru feature in HD DVD will be allowed over HDMI, Blu-ray is different. Streaming leaves out the advanced features of interactivity, the software companies behind that important feature for the format are also members of the forum, the content companies that set the flag to force the inclusion of advanced features mixed with the soundtrack are also on the forum, so I do not see streaming approved anytime soon.

Although Toshiba can always do again what they did with the DVD Forum back when they needed approval for their HD DVD format after the Forum rejected it (under another format name at that time). They figured out how to change the directors representing the member companies that voted against HD DVD, and they did, that is how HD DVD started.

One more reason Toshiba pushed me toward the opposite Blu-ray side, who can respect that kind of approval body, and that kind of manipulation of decision making?

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra

[rfowkes]

Rodolfo,

I look forward to that article. This whole HD-DVD/Blu-ray audio situation has me a bit perplexed and I'm sure you will, as always, provide clarity where there currently is very little elsewhere.

Thank you.

[Rodolfo]

Robert,

I decided that even though the article was checked by Dolby already, I am going to have the HD DVD promotion group approving the part of the HD DVD streaming as well.

As you can imagine, I am touching several nerves with this subject, as ususal in defense of consumers, so I am not expected to be welcomed when I open the can of worms. Otherwise our magazine would be like others that are on bed with everyone paying for an add. You only get the nasty true from my content.

But that is what we all need, open clarity on this subject, and express our discontent with many products and formats that are released half-way at expensive price tags, an issue that I address on the entire Hi-Def DVD Chapter of the upcoming 2007 report (60+ pages of it).

I rather delay the article until I get the HD DVD Promotion Group approval.

I hope is not for too long.

Best Regards,

Rodolfo La Maestra